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Thread: Census ‘faked’ 2012 election jobs report

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    Re: Census ‘faked’ 2012 election jobs report

    Quote Originally Posted by Imnukingfutz View Post
    Dance around in a circle, Deny it at all cost, Drink the Kool-Aid....whatever you have to do to convince yourself this didnt happen.

    Everything I have said and posted is in the article I linked to in the O.P. Sorry if you cant be bothered to read it in your blind defense of the Administration. I guess you wont let the facts get in the way of your defense.
    I'm sorry but other than a journalist's word there's no reason to believe this story. Its not blind defense of the administration, I just want a source not just some guy saying "Hey I totallly heard this massively horrible thing from a guy but I can't tell you anything about him but just trust me."

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    Re: Census ‘faked’ 2012 election jobs report

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I'm sorry but other than a journalist's word there's no reason to believe this story. Its not blind defense of the administration, I just want a source not just some guy saying "Hey I totallly heard this massively horrible thing from a guy but I can't tell you anything about him but just trust me."
    After the last several years, I'm not as inclined as I used to be in assuming that this government is being straight with me. I've also found myself more inclined to believe these types of people when they speak out about these subjects, given the government crackdown on internal whistleblowers. This realization has saddened me. Part of me is glad that some people still have an amount of faith in the integrity of this government. The newly cynical part of me thinks you're nuts.

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    Re: Census ‘faked’ 2012 election jobs report

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneWanderer View Post
    After the last several years, I'm not as inclined as I used to be in assuming that this government is being straight with me. I've also found myself more inclined to believe these types of people when they speak out about these subjects, given the government crackdown on internal whistleblowers. This realization has saddened me. Part of me is glad that some people still have an amount of faith in the integrity of this government. The newly cynical part of me thinks you're nuts.
    I know, I'm nuts for not believing something that has no source whatsoever, hey I totally heard from this guy in the government that the moon landings were actually faked but I can't tell you his name or anything like that just trust me OK?

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    Re: Census ‘faked’ 2012 election jobs report

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I know, I'm nuts for not believing something that has no source whatsoever, hey I totally heard from this guy in the government that the moon landings were actually faked but I can't tell you his name or anything like that just trust me OK?
    High-five to the cynical me, you are obviously nuts.

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    Re: Census ‘faked’ 2012 election jobs report

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    No the cenus bureau has no acknowledge it has occured,
    Yes, they rather did:

    Although Census had reported the falsification to the Inspector General's office, it did not publicly disclose the problem, nor did it inform the Labor Department privately - an oversight criticized by Labor.
    Why would they report the falsification to the IG if it didn't happen? The fact that they reported it is acknowledgement that it happened.

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    Re: Census ‘faked’ 2012 election jobs report

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Ummm, so you're operating under the assumption that all businesses support Republicans?
    No I am not under the assumption that ALL business support the GOP. But there are certainly some very large employers that do.. the Koch Brothers, Adelsonsomething in Las Vegas and many more, and they could just as easily not report or over report to manipulate the numbers. After all that is what we are talking about.. one very large employer that has maybe manipulated the numbers they reported to another government entity.

    But add to that other smaller conservative employers that simply dont report that they hired someone but certainly when they fire someone.. then well. We have seen many conservative business owners use their employees for their own political gain time and time again. There was the guy who was going to fire people because of Obamacare.... cant get more political than that if you ask me. It would not be a big leap to think that this type of guy would manipulate the numbers he reports to the big bad government run by his arch enemy...

    Basically, if the Census guys did it, then why on earth would people dismiss that the private sector guys dont do it as well? A bit harder to bust the private sector guys after all, but why dismiss the possibility.. kinda short sighted and naive no? I mean... cant the private sector be corrupt and criminal?

    And whats wrong with "survey?" How else do you propose this data be collected?
    Well in my home country everyone is registered. You cant get a bank account or function in society without this registration and the corresponding number (a bit like your SS number). That also means that the state can easily register who is employed and who is not, and who is a student and so on. So society is divided up in the work force (anyone not out of the work force) and out of the work force (pensioners, children, home makers, handicapped that are registered as unable to work).

    Out of those in the work force, you are divided into in work, not in work or student. To get any help from the state you have to provide this register number you get and based on this number you are put in one of the 3 boxes. So say you are employed. Everyone over 15 gets every year a tax paper. This tax paper states the various tax brackets, main deductibles and basic information like name, register number and so on. This you have to give to your employer, who then uses this information to pay your paycheck taxes directly to the state for you. This registers you in the "in work" box. If you fail to hand in the tax paper, then 60% is automatically taken out of your paycheck until you do.. nice incentive no? but you are still in the "work box" because the tax man will get his money no matter what.

    Unemployed are registered in the unemployment box because they receive some sort of aid from the state, and get that by registering at the local county.. again with the help of the tax paper and other information.

    And students are registered as that because they are registered at a school and can receive scholarship type aid of which they pay taxes of course. Yes students can work too, hence why the are in the over all "in the work force" box and would most likely count as a part time employee.

    All this is done pretty much automatically and makes the statistics relatively very accurate. Does some fall through the cracks, are there mistakes.. yea lol.., but it is no where near the guess work that the US unemployment numbers are. Those that fall through the cracks so to say, are mostly registered as not part of the work force, but these are in such small numbers that they wont influence the overall picture.

    Also people dont "fall off" the unemployment numbers just because they are unemployed more than 32 months or whatever the number is in the US... that is your biggest problem imo as it creates a very false picture of the actual unemployment situation.

    And the main benefit of this system... tax avoidance and cheating is damn hard but for the average person.. no major tax panic before the deadline because the tax man sends out their tax papers filled out with the information they have, and all you have to do is check that they are correct and correct them if needed and add stuff if needed. Doing my taxes takes me 5 minutes checking the information the tax man has sent me..
    PeteEU

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    Re: Census ‘faked’ 2012 election jobs report

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I'm sorry but other than a journalist's word there's no reason to believe this story. Its not blind defense of the administration, I just want a source not just some guy saying "Hey I totallly heard this massively horrible thing from a guy but I can't tell you anything about him but just trust me."
    Thats not what it is....as much as you would like it to be so.
    Know the truth and the truth will make you mad, because the truth has no agenda.

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    Re: Census ‘faked’ 2012 election jobs report

    There is some pretty circumstantial that that really doesn't look good.

    OK, one step at a time so everyone can follow along.

    The United States Census Bureau (officially the Bureau of the Census, as defined in Title 13 U.S.C. § 11) is a principal agency of the U.S. Federal Statistical System responsible for producing data about the American people and economy.
    The primary mission of the Census Bureau is conducting the U.S. Census every ten years, which allocates the seats of the U.S. House of Representatives to the states based on their population.[1] In addition to the decennial census, the Census Bureau continually conducts dozens of other censuses and surveys, including the American Community Survey, the U.S. Economic Census, and the Current Population Survey.[1] Furthermore, economic and foreign trade indicators released by the federal government typically contain data produced by the Census Bureau. The various censuses and surveys conducted by the Census Bureau help allocate over $400 billion in federal funds every year and help states, local communities, and businesses make informed decisions.[2]
    The Census Bureau is situated within the U.S. Department of Commerce and its director is appointed by the President of the United States.
    United States Census Bureau - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Census Bureau is situated within the U.S. Department of Commerce. No direct pipeline or reporting structure to the White House. A separate governmental entity from the executive branch.

    Then:
    President Obama has decided to have the director of the U.S. Census Bureau work directly with the White House, the administration said today, a move that comes as the Census Bureau prepares to conduct the 2010 census that will determine redistricting of congressional seats.
    White House Ordered Census Bureau To Work Directly With Obama Aides, Not Commerce Secretary - Fox Nation

    That's unusual. The White House want's a direct pipeline of what the Census Bureau calculates and tabulates, specific to 'redistricting of congressional seats'? Hmm. Working that close, one could easily imagine overt influence over the real results becoming the desired results.

    And, the canary in the coal mine:

    Utah's congressional delegation is calling President Obama's decision to move the U.S. census into the White House a purely partisan move and potentially dangerous to congressional redistricting around the country.

    Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, told FOX News on Monday that he finds it hard to believe the Obama administration felt the need to place re-evaluation of the inner workings of the census so high on his to-do list, just three weeks into his presidency.

    "This is nothing more than a political land grab," Chaffetz said.
    GOP Sounds Alarm Over Obama Decision to Move Census to White House | Fox News

    Now we are supposed to be surprised that it surfaces that Obama 'influenced' the unemployment numbers shortly before the election for his 2nd term?
    We are supposed to believe those that have deliberately deceived us on oh so many things?

    Seriously?

    I agree, it's no smoking gun, but you'll also have to agree that this chain of events is rather extra ordinary, and it is not a far fetched conclusion, given the history of this president and this administration.

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    Re: Census ‘faked’ 2012 election jobs report

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    There is some pretty circumstantial that that really doesn't look good.

    OK, one step at a time so everyone can follow along.


    United States Census Bureau - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Census Bureau is situated within the U.S. Department of Commerce. No direct pipeline or reporting structure to the White House. A separate governmental entity from the executive branch.

    Then:

    White House Ordered Census Bureau To Work Directly With Obama Aides, Not Commerce Secretary - Fox Nation

    That's unusual. The White House want's a direct pipeline of what the Census Bureau calculates and tabulates, specific to 'redistricting of congressional seats'? Hmm. Working that close, one could easily imagine overt influence over the real results becoming the desired results.

    And, the canary in the coal mine:


    GOP Sounds Alarm Over Obama Decision to Move Census to White House | Fox News

    Now we are supposed to be surprised that it surfaces that Obama 'influenced' the unemployment numbers shortly before the election for his 2nd term?
    We are supposed to believe those that have deliberately deceived us on oh so many things?

    Seriously?

    I agree, it's no smoking gun, but you'll also have to agree that this chain of events is rather extra ordinary, and it is not a far fetched conclusion, given the history of this president and this administration.
    If the administration had already started moving peices around to cook the books to help his re-election three weeks into his term, that would certainly paint a nefarious picture of this presidency.

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    Re: Census ‘faked’ 2012 election jobs report

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneWanderer View Post
    If the administration had already started moving peices around to cook the books to help his re-election three weeks into his term, that would certainly paint a nefarious picture of this presidency.
    The links are there for you to peruse. Granted, it's no smoking gun, but does lead one to believe exactly that.

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