Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

ttwtt78640 said:

Was that how it was before the FLSA and the great society programs?

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The highpoint of union membership was before The Great Society. Alleviating the effects of poverty just perpetuates capitalism according to some socialist. I think they are right. I personally prefer stability which social safety nets provide but WalMart is the result of that compromise.

Gardener said:

You must be awfully old if you are calling ME son.

Just because you are ignorant and dogmatic, that doesn't mean everybody is. I actually run my own business. How about you?

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I own a clinical practice that employees teams of therapists and psychologists as well as business and family rentals. So...yeah...I do. And your pathetic insults make for lousy arguments.

jmotivator said:

For those keeping track:

Forcing Wal-Mart to increase their wages so that unskilled labor is paid on par with skilled labor, driving up the cost of goods at Wal-Mart: A-OK.

Asking shoppers to voluntarily increase their own cost of shopping at Wal-Mart via contributions to help Wal-Mart employees: OUTRAGEOUS!!

Further proof of two truths about liberalism:

1) Liberals don't care what you do so long as it's mandatory.

And

2) Liberals are all about helping the little guy so long as they don't need to be involved.

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Here's a pointer for that strawman you're building

rocket88 said:

Sometimes. It depends. I'm just saying that if Wal-Mart cares that much, they have the tools to do something.

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WalMart has given them a job. That particular WalMart seeks donations to assist particular individuals.

Those donations you make...you get you arent contributing to the cause but rather to that business entity's charitable tax write-offs...right?

iliveonramen said:

The highpoint of union membership was before The Great Society. Alleviating the effects of poverty just perpetuates capitalism according to some socialist. I think they are right. I personally prefer stability which social safety nets provide but WalMart is the result of that compromise.

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Walmart is far from the only user of low wage workers, it is simply the largest.

not sure why people are so bent out of shape over a charity drive....but it's pretty ****ty to be butthurt about it.

VanceMack said:

I own a clinical practice that employees teams of therapists and psychologists as well as business and family rentals. So...yeah...I do. And your pathetic insults make for lousy arguments.

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Lousy arguments? You mean like this fantasy of yours that a finite system somehow isn't?

jmotivator said:

For those keeping track:

Forcing Wal-Mart to increase their wages so that unskilled labor is paid on par with skilled labor, driving up the cost of goods at Wal-Mart: A-OK.

Asking shoppers to voluntarily increase their own cost of shopping at Wal-Mart via contributions to help Wal-Mart employees: OUTRAGEOUS!!

Further proof of two truths about liberalism:

1) Liberals don't care what you do so long as it's mandatory.

And

2) Liberals are all about helping the little guy so long as they don't need to be involved.

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Actually it's more about a company asking others to to chip in because they pay their employees horrible salaries. They could actually of spent less buying back stock last year and paid their employees pretty much double minimum wage.

VanceMack said:

WalMart has given them a job. That particular WalMart seeks donations to assist particular individuals.

Those donations you make...you get you arent contributing to the cause but rather to that business entity's charitable tax write-offs...right?

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more directly, you are contributing to a better holiday meal for those people who are less fortunate.

and somehow, that's evil

ttwtt78640 said:

Walmart is far from the only user of low wage workers, it is simply the largest.

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Of course. All companies that pay low wage labor benefit from social safety nets. WalMart is as you say the largest so the biggest target/beneficiary.

Gardener said:

Lousy arguments? You mean like this fantasy of yours that a finite system somehow isn't?

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Wait...wait...you REALLY believe that local economies are 'finite' and that there is no room for competing businesses, growth, pursuit of revenue from beyond local borders, etc? You honest to God believe that every job at WalMart was stolen from some small business and that if those small businesses were in place they would employ numbers in kind? Management teams? Accounting teams? Shipping and receiving teams? Or that those small business would have the same draw and benefit to local economies?

VanceMack said:

Wait...wait...you REALLY believe that local economies are 'finite' and that there is no room for competing businesses, growth, pursuit of revenue from beyond local borders, etc? You honest to God believe that every job at WalMart was stolen from some small business and that if those small businesses were in place they would employ numbers in kind? Management teams? Accounting teams? Shipping and receiving teams? Or that those small business would have the same draw and benefit to local economies?

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Do you REALLY believe that small business does not offer all of those things?

I'm confused are some posters actually mad that Wal-Mart is starting a food donation for its needy employees last time I checked that was a good thing . Even if the motivation might not be so pure its still beneficial to both parties and is a good example of symbioses . Its a company not a charity its motivation is to get money not give it out since when you open a business that is the purpose to gain profit .

Thrilla said:

not sure why people are so bent out of shape over a charity drive....but it's pretty ****ty to be butthurt about it.

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Right! I work for a pretty good company that pays wells and every year we do a food drive and make thanksgiving baskets for other coworkers that may have had a tough year or just need some help. Not one coworker has ever made negative remarks or complained that we should all just get paid some more. They put their can of creamed corn in the box and moves along with their day.

Also on Christmas we put a tree up and hang up children's gloves, hats, and scarves to distribute. How diabolical of the company to allow that, the big boss should just distribute money so the parents can buy want they want!

iliveonramen said:

Of course. All companies that pay low wage labor benefit from social safety nets. WalMart is as you say the largest so the biggest target/beneficiary.

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That's basically what it comes down to. Wal-mart is the best at what they do, and what they do is often hated by liberals. They supply low-wage, low-skill jobs to the masses. They do create a net increase in jobs, but often not as much as believed because mom-and-pop stores will often close down due to pricing that they cannot compete with.

What I don't get is how people think that Wal-mart "owe" their people something. They provide a legal, mutually agreed upon wage for services rendered. Since when is that not enough?

iliveonramen said:

Of course. All companies that pay low wage labor benefit from social safety nets. WalMart is as you say the largest so the biggest target/beneficiary.

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Yep. Does that mean that SNAP, and various ther social spending, is really "corporate welfare"?

Gardener said:

Do you REALLY believe that small business does not offer all of those things?

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Yep. MOST small businesses dont do the kind of volume that requires a shipping department for example. They dont hire teams to come in and stock shelves. They may have AN accountant...certainly not TEAMS of accountants. They dont hire Human Resources PMs, etc. That is VERY correct...they DO NOT.

CanadaJohn said:

Is Walmart breaking the law?

Does Walmart force people to work for them or shop in their stores?

Do you give all your extra income to charity?

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CanadaJohn said:

So, assuming you're correct, you have two people to blame:

1. You can blame the full time employee settling for $25,000 in yearly income because they didn't complete their education or didn't take seriously their education and now they have no skills or skills that are unattractive and of low value to the people who hire.

2. You can blame Obama and his administration for not developing/encouraging an economic environment where highly skilled and educated citizens can get and keep jobs that match those skills and that education.

Again, you can't blame Walmart because they don't force people to work in their stores and they don't force people to shop there. In your view, Walmart is responsible for correcting the bad life choices of their employees and the bad economic policies of the government. They're not. Walmart has no trouble finding employees at the wages they pay. If you want them to pay more, it will require them having more competition for their employees - simple as that.

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I think you are missing the big picture. Wal-Mart itself is a big problem, but it's just one of the biggest examples of the same problem. The point is that they are obeying the law. Companies are free to set up shop in any country that will take them, it's just that there used to be incentives for keeping the work stateside (i.e. tariffs and protectionist treaties).

The problem is market forces and how, in a lowly-regulated global system, these forces compel companies to move production to the cheapest parts of the world. That's nothing but a logical competitive reaction of the company to the laws of our country. Of course this is all at the same time encouraged by our reverence for unfettered capitalism and free trade. But when the same products are made by the same amount of people for less and less, and most of the new profit goes to 4 of the richest billionaires alive, while they encourage their customers to donate back some of the money they saved to their needy workers, isn't that perverse?

You can't talk about bringing back industry at home until you resolve the laws and regulations that allow companies to move production overseas.

And I get confused on the conservative position of how much personal responsibility poor people should have? It's their fault because they didn't get a higher degree and more training? I thought Rick Santorum said it was snobby to suggest that everyone should go to college. And what about our grandparents, wasn't working in a factory good enough for them? If their factory closed and a Wal-Mart opened next door, wouldn't that be the likely place for them to have to work to get by? And why should getting a college degree necessarily make you more competitive, there's more of us every year and not enough jobs to support the educated class.

VanceMack said:

Yep. MOST small businesses dont do the kind of volume that requires a shipping department for example. They dont hire teams to come in and stock shelves. They may have AN accountant...certainly not TEAMS of accountants. They dont hire Human Resources PMs, etc. That is VERY correct...they DO NOT.

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Are you innumerate?

One huge business hires a team of accountants. A series of small businesses each hires one, but more accountants are hired collectively. You aren't even talking about a zero sum gain when talking Walmart. Because of the centralization and efficiency, you are talking net loss in terms of jobs.

Gardener said:

Are you innumerate?

One huge business hires a team of accountants. A series of small businesses each hires one, but more accountants are hired collectively. You aren't even talking about a zero sum gain when talking Walmart. Because of the centralization and efficiency, you are talking net loss in terms of jobs.

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:lamo

You REALLY want to pretend that small businesses hire the same number people that large retailers like WalMart do....thats...comical. You are either spouting rhetoric (lying) which is laughable or BELIEVE it...which is...sad...

(most small businesses do not hire accountants...they contract with an accounting agency)

iliveonramen said:

Actually it's more about a company asking others to to chip in because they pay their employees horrible salaries. They could actually of spent less buying back stock last year and paid their employees pretty much double minimum wage.

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They pay for the work done, not for the lifestyle of the employee.

Also, I'd need to see the math on your claim about buy back stock and raising wages. Walmart has 1.6 billion shares held by outside parties with a total street value of $126 billion dollars. How much of that do you want them to buy back, exactly, and with what money?

rocket88 said:

Here's a pointer for that strawman you're building

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Nah, it's a pretty accurate description. This thread is filled with people outraged that Wal-Mart would ask for donations from customers for their employees rather than raise their wages and charge customers more.

jmotivator said:

Nah, it's a pretty accurate description. This thread is filled with people outraged that Wal-Mart would ask for donations from customers for their employees rather than raise their wages and charge customers more.

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It's not full of anybody saying the government needs to swoop in and force them to take action. My point is simply that if they want their employees to have a nice holiday, it is entirely within their power and means to do something. They could, for example, not be open on Thanksgiving Day, but that's not going to happen.

aberrant85 said:

I think you are missing the big picture. Wal-Mart itself is a big problem, but it's just one of the biggest examples of the same problem. The point is that they are obeying the law. Companies are free to set up shop in any country that will take them, it's just that there used to be incentives for keeping the work stateside (i.e. tariffs and protectionist treaties).

The problem is market forces and how, in a lowly-regulated global system, these forces compel companies to move production to the cheapest parts of the world. That's nothing but a logical competitive reaction of the company to the laws of our country. Of course this is all at the same time encouraged by our reverence for unfettered capitalism and free trade. But when the same products are made by the same amount of people for less and less, and most of the new profit goes to 4 of the richest billionaires alive, while they encourage their customers to donate back some of the money they saved to their needy workers, isn't that perverse?

You can't talk about bringing back industry at home until you resolve the laws and regulations that allow companies to move production overseas.

And I get confused on the conservative position of how much personal responsibility poor people should have? It's their fault because they didn't get a higher degree and more training? I thought Rick Santorum said it was snobby to suggest that everyone should go to college. And what about our grandparents, wasn't working in a factory good enough for them? If their factory closed and a Wal-Mart opened next door, wouldn't that be the likely place for them to have to work to get by? And why should getting a college degree necessarily make you more competitive, there's more of us every year and not enough jobs to support the educated class.

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Where to start?

1. I don't know what gave you the impression that I'm a devotee of Rick Santorum. Why is it that when confronted with an argument, liberals always want to through out some "wacko-bird" as the spokesperson for a who segment of society? My words speak for themselves - they're my opinions and do not rely on the words of anyone else - I would never suggest that you walk in lockstep with Debbie Wasserman-Schultz or Barbara Boxer.

2. Indeed - my father worked in a factory - he had very little formal education, served in the navy during WW2, and came back to Canada and was basically only skilled enough to work in a factory setting. He and my mother provided a good life for me and my brothers, but nothing fancy and pretty much on the poor end of the scale. But my parents made damn sure that my brothers and I had a better life than they did and insisted on us finishing university. I owe my parents a lot for wanting more for me than just some factory job or minimum wage "career".

3. I'm not the one claiming any job "isn't good enough". I honor every job and the people who hold them. But I don't assign an equal value to society of every job in society. I'm not socialistic in that regard. I don't believe a doctor or lawyer or architect or electrical engineer should have their skills devalued to meet some artificial societal norm any more than I believe that someone who dropped out of school or who ended their education at an early stage should have their skills overvalued to meet some artificial societal norm that gives them a "living wage". Choices in life bring consequences in life - most parents teach their children these lessons but not all children heed the message.

4. I can't speak for Americans, but here in Canada we don't aspire to careers in minimum wage jobs nor do we believe that we need to make and distribute every little do-hickey known to man. We did that, after the wars, when we needed to employ people and make goods the country needed. We've moved past that stage - we now want more for both ourselves and for our children. We're quite satisfied to let people in Asia make dishtowels and other everyday virtually disposable items that we use but that don't define who we are. We want hi-tech, financial, research, healthcare, etc. jobs that acknowledge the superior brain power we possess. We'd rather get paid for using our heads rather than using our hands. But there will always be those who can't find their calling or their niche in that economy and they will have to settle for a career at Walmart, as an example. But make no mistake - jobs like at Walmart are basically designed for the stay at home mom who has a few hours a day to spare or the student in highschool or university saving money for a car or for tuition or for the retired senior who wants something to do or a little extra income to supplement their retirement income. A job at Walmart, except in the management ranks, is not designed to be a career and should not be paid as if it was a career even if people find themselves in such jobs as a career from time to time.

aberrant85 said:

I think you are missing the big picture. Wal-Mart itself is a big problem, but it's just one of the biggest examples of the same problem. The point is that they are obeying the law. Companies are free to set up shop in any country that will take them, it's just that there used to be incentives for keeping the work stateside (i.e. tariffs and protectionist treaties).

The problem is market forces and how, in a lowly-regulated global system, these forces compel companies to move production to the cheapest parts of the world. That's nothing but a logical competitive reaction of the company to the laws of our country. Of course this is all at the same time encouraged by our reverence for unfettered capitalism and free trade. But when the same products are made by the same amount of people for less and less, and most of the new profit goes to 4 of the richest billionaires alive, while they encourage their customers to donate back some of the money they saved to their needy workers, isn't that perverse?

You can't talk about bringing back industry at home until you resolve the laws and regulations that allow companies to move production overseas.

And I get confused on the conservative position of how much personal responsibility poor people should have? It's their fault because they didn't get a higher degree and more training? I thought Rick Santorum said it was snobby to suggest that everyone should go to college. And what about our grandparents, wasn't working in a factory good enough for them? If their factory closed and a Wal-Mart opened next door, wouldn't that be the likely place for them to have to work to get by? And why should getting a college degree necessarily make you more competitive, there's more of us every year and not enough jobs to support the educated class.

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You're blaming the "market forces" on Wal-mart? You may as well blame God for your picnic getting rained on.

The rest is just a bunch of "workers of the world unite" bullcrap.