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Thread: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by DiavoTheMiavo View Post
    I'm not confusing your compassion with anti-corporate sentiment . . . I get it. However, after knowing you for more than ten years, I also know we are more alike than we sometimes may want to admit. I too left the house at 17-years old, but I went straight into the service. Had many jobs as well, hell, I even did both the Army and Navy. I've been a paperboy, busboy, dishwasher, cowboy, siding hanger, cop, corpsman, carpenter, car salesman, used car manager, Xray tech, landscape contractor, small business owner, son, husband, father and grand father all by the time I hit my mid-fifties. Hell, I worked 2-jobs from the time I was 13 until I went in the Army, and I delivered papers starting at eleven. I am product of my environment, like most people.

    Hard work isn't something I am against at all. I mentioned that I did not understand how the people get the blame, especially IF they work hard, especially if they are trying to do the right thing, when they receive benefits. In my first paragraph, I suggested we all (most of us) want the same things, not "to make sure you can afford anything you want in your life." I never suggested that, because that would be ridiculous. I just don't want to subsidize Walmart's profits by paying their worker's any form of aid when they can clearly afford it. Henry Ford built cars and understood that the people he hired to build them, should be able to purchase one. You are right though . . . this is the government's fault. They create the tax and labor laws the corporate lobbyists write which allows for ENRON accountability standards that make it so they do not have to provide insurance or pay their fair share. Leaving you and me and millions like us to finance it all. And in many circles, people who have no benefit from their actions, and in fact it goes against their better interests, applaud them for their creative ability to not pay. I don't get it. I don't really care what Walmart pays as long as I don't have to pay for their employees food stamps.



    Some people can answer yes to all three questions, some , maybe only two, and others maybe only one, but many will still take the job because that is all there is. Let's just say they don't take the job, we're still paying for their bennys. An employer's responsibility? Good question, and one where the word, "Morals" should be included some where in the answer. I'm a firm believer in the old adage, "When you pay peanuts, you get monkeys." I also believe that to a certain extent, the employer has to work for the workers in order to make them efficient, proud workers who know that doing your best, through hard work is rewarded. I believe an employer who goes on the TV and Radio airwaves proclaiming all they do for service to the community, should not make me pay for their worker's benefits if they can afford to do so. All while making a profit. Walmart's profits should matter to every one who pays the taxes that go to benefits that aids their workers. I am aware they have a responsibility to share holders, so perhaps some pay cuts to the executives (who receive all the treatment I just described) are in order.



    Walmart isn't hurting, and perhaps they should pay their workers another $9.00 a week, or apply it to a health care policy. It's not like they couldn't afford it. According my google home work this morning (Oh yeah, thanks for that, I really wanted to google Walmart profits this morning), after all the creative accounting, tax loop holes, interest, building, etc, Walmart had a net profit of $16.39 Billion in 2012. $17.76 Billion for 2013. They gross some where around $120 Billion.





    I had good examples and work ethic instilled in me as a youngster. I heard encouraging words and was told I could do anything I wanted to. I was lucky, because I know me, had I grown up 2-houses down and had a different last name, I could be working at Walmart right now, and really situationally tied to that job. Two houses the other way are the Tea Party brothers who both collect Social Security and have Medicaid. I'm just sayin'.

    I appreciate what you are saying here, and have a few differences, but you're right, we took similar paths, and both seemed to end up ok....Let me just say that retail is a hard business to do anything substantial as far as wealth creation goes...Like I said my father owned a Pharmacy, that also sold convenience items, and liquor as well, and his store although provided a good living, he wasn't a rich man by any means. I am struck by the old adage that 'you can go into business to create a job, or you can make a difference and be rich'.... My father's business although we didn't want for anything, we were no where near rich.

    But the point where we have a difference is that an employer's responsibility to its workers, IMHO, is to pay a fair wage for work done (doesn't mean a livable wage), provide a safe work environment, and reasonable hours. Other than that, I think the responsibility stops there. The business doesn't adopt the person for goodness sake....You mentioned that you were also in car sales of some sort, and a manager for used cars, right? Knowing that business, I am sure that you saw your share of salesmen under you, that struggled to sell a car, or maybe every car they sold was a 'mini deal' where they made very little for moving it....But that is the business right? A car dealer pays people on commission so it is up to the person to sell the car, the more they sell it for, the better money they make. The ability to make the money is totally on the salesman....Now, do you think that if a dealer has a salesman that every car they sell is at cost, ie; 'giving them away', should then draw a living wage from the dealer if the dealer is making NO profit? And how long would that salesman last?

    So, when you cite the raw number profit, ie; $16 Billion, $17 Billion etc...I think you are making the mistake of looking at raw numbers, and not percentages...3 to 4% is not a hell of alot of money....Considering they are the largest retail employer in the US with over 4,000 stores, and over 2 million employees. Plus, if you think that they are too big, and should be gone, what would that look like? Prices for everyone would go up, and 2 million more unemployed....Great.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Can you please explain this further?
    Sure, the cost of regulation, and increasing taxation puts strain on wages.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Sure, the cost of regulation, and increasing taxation puts strain on wages.
    I thought that this and the previous administration have been quite accommodating to large corporations. It's my opinion as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    The Golden Rule?

    You are asking to suddenly be paid a lot more money for ZERO extra productivity - you are, in essence, asking for a handout.

    I have enough pride that unless I was in a life or death situation, that I would never ask for a handout.

    And I would NEVER expect an employer to pay me substantially more for ZERO additional productivity.


    As for your mid 70's assessment.

    The minimum wage in 1975 was $2.10/hour. That is (based on 2000 hours per year) $4200/yr in gross income. The poverty line in 1975 was $2902.

    In 2013, the minimum wage is $7.25 or (times 2000 hours) $14,500/yr. in gross income (and taxes are lower now - so you would take home slightly more after taxes). The official poverty line for 2013 is $11,490.

    Poverty in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Poverty Thresholds 1975 - U.S Census Bureau

    Here’s the US tax rate on your income for every year since 1913 – Quartz

    Though there has been some erosion - both are still far above the poverty line.

    And a definition of the 'poverty line' is:

    'poverty line
    noun
    noun: poverty line; plural noun: poverty lines
    1.
    the estimated minimum level of income needed to secure the necessities of life.
    '

    https://www.google.ca/search?q=pover...ine+definition

    So the United States minimum wage DOES provide enough money for someone to 'secure the necessities of life' and then some.


    Not that it matters since it is none of the employers responsibility...I am just sayin'.
    The cost of living varies greatly in various regions. To some degree, state minimum wages adjust for that, but not enough in many cases. For example, I heard you can get a one bedroom apartment for $700 per month in Memphis. That would cost at least $1700 in San Francisco. $700 won't even get a room in an SRO in SF.

    Based on your numbers for 1975 a minimum wage worker earned 145% of the poverty level.

    Based on your numbers for 2013 a minimum wage worker earned 126% of the poverty level. That shows that minimum wage workers are worse off currently, and by enough to hurt.

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Why is someone taking a job that doesnt pay enough not the responsibility of the worker? Why are they unskilled? Why are they in an unskilled job for years? Why is their skill level or experience or competency the responsibility of the employer to make up the difference for?
    In my view someone who consistently shows up and does their job properly for 40 hours is worth a living wage. If the employer is not willing to pay that much they should not hire another employee. That is the principal of minimum wage laws. I am advocating raising the minimum wage by some amount, which should be determined by the cost of living of the geographic area.

    The marketplace is a force to be reckoned with, but it is definitely not a moral authority.

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Are you sure that the lowest skilled workers are undervalued? IMHO, the idea that a McJob should pay a nearly the same wage as a tradesman (e.g. plumber, carpenter or electrician) makes little sense. Why would someone bother to learn more skills, work out in the elements, travel at their own expense (time and money) to far away job sites, buy their own tools and suffer random unpaid days off due to bad weather only to make slightly more money?
    There is a lot of room between minimum wage and a skilled tradesperson's pay.

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    In response to the bolded, basically, that we now have and will continue to have more people than jobs. What this implies is that a fixed amount of labor must be shared among ever more people, with fewer of them (or for less time) participating in producing anything (in any given time period). I suppose that the "fair" way to handle that situation is taking a job sharing approach, by alternating shifts either by the day, week, month, year or even career span. If we have 3 people for every 2 jobs then perhaps each will work only 2/3 of the shifts.

    Of course, we could do as we now do; allow some to simply kick back and be supported by the gov't.
    Modern technology should make our lives easier and better. Since productivity has increased, a four day work week, without a reduction in pay sounds good to me.

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    In my view someone who consistently shows up and does their job properly for 40 hours is worth a living wage. If the employer is not willing to pay that much they should not hire another employee. That is the principal of minimum wage laws. I am advocating raising the minimum wage by some amount, which should be determined by the cost of living of the geographic area.

    The marketplace is a force to be reckoned with, but it is definitely not a moral authority.
    Define a "living wage"?

    Modern technology should make our lives easier and better. Since productivity has increased, a four day work week, without a reduction in pay sounds good to me.
    So, you really are not concerned with the weekly take home, just that you should be able to do less, and still get paid the same....That's just not realistic.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    In my view someone who consistently shows up and does their job properly for 40 hours is worth a living wage. If the employer is not willing to pay that much they should not hire another employee. That is the principal of minimum wage laws. I am advocating raising the minimum wage by some amount, which should be determined by the cost of living of the geographic area.

    The marketplace is a force to be reckoned with, but it is definitely not a moral authority.
    That is your opinion and it sounds great. However there is no obligation or compelling business reason for a *business* owner to pay more than the employee's work is worth. If anyone can do that work and there is a surplus of workers....it makes no sense to pay more.

    Again, those jobs, at that wage, serve a purpose (entry level, part time, supplement fixed incomes, etc etc). IMO (just my opinion) there is no reason anyone should spend most of their working life in such a position and it is an injustice to our society to enable or encourage it.

    If that wage is not acceptable, dont take the job. Is it the only job available to you? Why?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob N View Post
    Well it appears that a Cleveland, Ohio Walmart is holding a food drive so that it's employees can have a nice Holiday meal. The sign in the store, accompanied by several plastic bins, reads: "Please donate food items so associates in need can enjoy Thanksgiving dinner."

    Really? Thank goodness those people are employed so those associates don't have to get on food stamps.

    What cracks me up with some people that see nothing wrong with what Walmart is doing would probably go berserk if you wished them "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas."
    Maybe Walmart should just close their doors and layoff the hundreds of thousands they presently employ....

    Why are progressives so ungrateful??

    Also the article clearly states this drive is for "needy families" E.G: those who have been laid off or those who are supporting families on a single salary....

    What the hell is wrong with that?

    Oh yeah, progressives expect that remedial employees make $25.00/hr...

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