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Thread: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

  1. #561
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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    IMO the fact that so many people value themselves so little that they cannot bother to plan for their future that they leave high school and just 'let life happen' to them is sad. To start out at a basic unskilled job is no shame because you can develop skills and experience and move up from there. But to remain that way for years....to never better yourself...that's also even sadder. To expect to be BETTER compensated for that lack of drive, effort and personal responsibility? That is repugnant.
    You don't seem to realize this, but there are far fewer opportunities for advancement in this country than you seem to think there are. For many, there is nowhere to move up to. You're doing exactly what I'm warning against. You're focusing on condemning other people for not being as well off as you. Good for you that you got some of the few good opportunities to go around. But there aren't enough of them, and some people don't luck out. "Planning for one's future" as you put it, is a very different thing when one is struggling to make rent, or when there are dozens or hundreds of applicants for every job one might want to move on to. You should check your ego and realize that people who are stuck are just that, stuck. They're not lazy or stupid, they're just stuck. And while the mentality you're espousing is common, more and more people will get stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Are you sure that the lowest skilled workers are undervalued? IMHO, the idea that a McJob should pay a nearly the same wage as a tradesman (e.g. plumber, carpenter or electrician) makes little sense. Why would someone bother to learn more skills, work out in the elements, travel at their own expense (time and money) to far away job sites, buy their own tools and suffer random unpaid days off due to bad weather only to make slightly more money?

    Because people don't actually exist to follow the path of least resistance. People apply themselves based on their talents and what they like to do. People don't just work at what's easiest. They work at what they're good at. Arbitrarily compensating some talents over other talents is silly. Everyone works hard, and everyone should live a decent life.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    If the people taking the job from a company, don't agree to the wage offered, then they don't have to take the job.

    And the alternative is? The rent is due in a week and the last sixty three jobs this person has applied for were filled by someone else. You like the idea of the freedom to work where you want, but that freedom doesn't exist for most of the people in this country. They don't have any kind of choice. They just have to take what they're given.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Rather than blaming businesses that don't pay what 'YOUR' acceptable wage should be, why don't you look at why it is that Americans looking to raise a family on minimum wage starter jobs is becoming the norm....I would say that has more to do with current administration policy than any business model.

    And you would be wrong. What we're talking about is the destructive trend that will lead to more and more unemployment in the future. Because of increased efficiency and better technology, labor is becoming cheaper. You've seen this over the last decade, especially. We all have. It's not going to magically get better by putting Republicans in office and cutting taxes. It's going to get worse and worse until we stop viewing labor as a commodity. Never again will there be more work than labor. So we will need a different system. This one is not going to work in the future. It doesn't work now. There are a lot more people trying to work than there is work to do. That leads to predatory business practices where people become expendable, and no one is adequately compensated. The whole basis of this thread is outrage that minimum wage workers be paid more, but the truth is that they were never paid enough to begin with. When work doesn't support a person, we are intentionally creating poverty, and we are intentionally damaging ourselves and our nation. So long as people are undervalued like this, we will continue to get poorer and poorer, more people will remain unemployed for longer, and everyone but the super rich will fall more towards poverty.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  2. #562
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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Your dishonesty reeks here....Stick to the question if you would....WalMart makes about 3.8% net profit, is that fair or not?
    I'm sorry. I don't see it as dishonesty. In 2008 Wal-Mart started out 23.50% PM and in 2013 ended up with 24.38%PM -- with small influctations in-between. So what of it?
    "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

  3. #563
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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    And the alternative is? The rent is due in a week and the last sixty three jobs this person has applied for were filled by someone else. You like the idea of the freedom to work where you want, but that freedom doesn't exist for most of the people in this country. They don't have any kind of choice. They just have to take what they're given.
    Nonsense....First off, if the rent is due in a week then they have bigger problems than if they should take that job in the first place....Second, no one is saying that the job market isn't ****ty at the moment, except maybe Obama and his ilk that seem to think that things are getting better....So you disagree with Obama right? Doubt it.

    But to think that if someone has to take a job beneath their skill level, and would just settle there as a career and moan about the wage as if they then own the job is laughable. If they do that they are losers.

    And you would be wrong. What we're talking about is the destructive trend that will lead to more and more unemployment in the future. Because of increased efficiency and better technology, labor is becoming cheaper. You've seen this over the last decade, especially. We all have. It's not going to magically get better by putting Republicans in office and cutting taxes. It's going to get worse and worse until we stop viewing labor as a commodity. Never again will there be more work than labor. So we will need a different system.
    Your labor IS a commodity....Like it or not, it is how you get paid. But, what do you mean by a 'different system'?

    Socialism? That has NEVER worked. So, no I won't support a failed system based of people being jealous of their station in life that is of their own choosing.

    This one is not going to work in the future. It doesn't work now. There are a lot more people trying to work than there is work to do. That leads to predatory business practices where people become expendable, and no one is adequately compensated. The whole basis of this thread is outrage that minimum wage workers be paid more, but the truth is that they were never paid enough to begin with. When work doesn't support a person, we are intentionally creating poverty, and we are intentionally damaging ourselves and our nation. So long as people are undervalued like this, we will continue to get poorer and poorer, more people will remain unemployed for longer, and everyone but the super rich will fall more towards poverty.
    Yep, that's Obama's plan...Ain't it great.....Yes we can! Yes we can!
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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  4. #564
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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob N View Post
    I'm sorry. I don't see it as dishonesty. In 2008 Wal-Mart started out 23.50% PM and in 2013 ended up with 24.38%PM -- with small influctations in-between. So what of it?
    No Bob, you started out posting this to me....

    Wal-mart made 15.7 Billion dollars last year and they can't afford Christmas bonuses to people that keep the store going? I find that incredibly hard to believe.
    $15.7 Billion is what you said WalMart made....I have no problem with that....I posted an article that showed Walmart's total sales as $407 Billion for the same time period....then I asked you what percentage of profit $15.7 Billion was out of $407 Billion, then you tried to say with a CNN article that European stores brought in another amount, (why I don't know because we are talking about the US), and then when I rejected that attempt at deflection, you finally went to the Walmart posted spread sheet, but rather than the 3.8% that $15.7 Billion represents out of their $407 Billion sales you tried now to say that gross profit before operating expenses is what they make....



    Are you sure you even know what you said they made in the first place anymore?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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  5. #565
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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    You don't seem to realize this, but there are far fewer opportunities for advancement in this country than you seem to think there are. For many, there is nowhere to move up to. You're doing exactly what I'm warning against. You're focusing on condemning other people for not being as well off as you. Good for you that you got some of the few good opportunities to go around. But there aren't enough of them, and some people don't luck out. "Planning for one's future" as you put it, is a very different thing when one is struggling to make rent, or when there are dozens or hundreds of applicants for every job one might want to move on to. You should check your ego and realize that people who are stuck are just that, stuck. They're not lazy or stupid, they're just stuck. And while the mentality you're espousing is common, more and more people will get stuck.




    Because people don't actually exist to follow the path of least resistance. People apply themselves based on their talents and what they like to do. People don't just work at what's easiest. They work at what they're good at. Arbitrarily compensating some talents over other talents is silly. Everyone works hard, and everyone should live a decent life.




    And the alternative is? The rent is due in a week and the last sixty three jobs this person has applied for were filled by someone else. You like the idea of the freedom to work where you want, but that freedom doesn't exist for most of the people in this country. They don't have any kind of choice. They just have to take what they're given.




    And you would be wrong. What we're talking about is the destructive trend that will lead to more and more unemployment in the future. Because of increased efficiency and better technology, labor is becoming cheaper. You've seen this over the last decade, especially. We all have. It's not going to magically get better by putting Republicans in office and cutting taxes. It's going to get worse and worse until we stop viewing labor as a commodity. Never again will there be more work than labor. So we will need a different system. This one is not going to work in the future. It doesn't work now. There are a lot more people trying to work than there is work to do. That leads to predatory business practices where people become expendable, and no one is adequately compensated. The whole basis of this thread is outrage that minimum wage workers be paid more, but the truth is that they were never paid enough to begin with. When work doesn't support a person, we are intentionally creating poverty, and we are intentionally damaging ourselves and our nation. So long as people are undervalued like this, we will continue to get poorer and poorer, more people will remain unemployed for longer, and everyone but the super rich will fall more towards poverty.
    In response to the bolded, basically, that we now have and will continue to have more people than jobs. What this implies is that a fixed amount of labor must be shared among ever more people, with fewer of them (or for less time) participating in producing anything (in any given time period). I suppose that the "fair" way to handle that situation is taking a job sharing approach, by alternating shifts either by the day, week, month, year or even career span. If we have 3 people for every 2 jobs then perhaps each will work only 2/3 of the shifts.

    Of course, we could do as we now do; allow some to simply kick back and be supported by the gov't.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #566
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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Mornin' Dave. Yes, in certain areas we are close in some aspects, but don't confuse my compassion with any anti corporate sentiment. We all do want better, but it is up to us, not any obligation of a company that gives me a job....Do you know how many "jobs" I've had in my life? How many different things I have done since the good ol' days of 17 y.o. when I moved out of my fathers house?



    No, this is a failure of our government, not the business community. Now, you want to rail that our government allows everything from childcare, to free cell phones, as really enticements for the welfare recipients vote? I am right there with you, but if you want to say that business has some obligation to make sure you can afford anything you want in your life all because you hire on to collect the shopping carts in the parking lot, then sorry, but that's ridiculous.
    I'm not confusing your compassion with anti-corporate sentiment . . . I get it. However, after knowing you for more than ten years, I also know we are more alike than we sometimes may want to admit. I too left the house at 17-years old, but I went straight into the service. Had many jobs as well, hell, I even did both the Army and Navy. I've been a paperboy, busboy, dishwasher, cowboy, siding hanger, cop, corpsman, carpenter, car salesman, used car manager, Xray tech, landscape contractor, small business owner, son, husband, father and grand father all by the time I hit my mid-fifties. Hell, I worked 2-jobs from the time I was 13 until I went in the Army, and I delivered papers starting at eleven. I am product of my environment, like most people.

    Hard work isn't something I am against at all. I mentioned that I did not understand how the people get the blame, especially IF they work hard, especially if they are trying to do the right thing, when they receive benefits. In my first paragraph, I suggested we all (most of us) want the same things, not "to make sure you can afford anything you want in your life." I never suggested that, because that would be ridiculous. I just don't want to subsidize Walmart's profits by paying their worker's any form of aid when they can clearly afford it. Henry Ford built cars and understood that the people he hired to build them, should be able to purchase one. You are right though . . . this is the government's fault. They create the tax and labor laws the corporate lobbyists write which allows for ENRON accountability standards that make it so they do not have to provide insurance or pay their fair share. Leaving you and me and millions like us to finance it all. And in many circles, people who have no benefit from their actions, and in fact it goes against their better interests, applaud them for their creative ability to not pay. I don't get it. I don't really care what Walmart pays as long as I don't have to pay for their employees food stamps.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    A companies profits are really NONE of the employees business. The only thing that should matter to the prospective employee is 1. Can I do the job? 2. Is the wage fair to me for what I am asked to do? 3. Can I see myself working there? If the answer to these three questions is 'yes' then they take the job, if not then they don't, simple as that. It really has nothing to do with the "macro" issues you are conflating this into. But, I remember when I was growing up, and my dad owned, and ran his Pharmacy downtown Lansing....So, I am interested to hear what you think the "employer responsibility to its employees" are.....
    Some people can answer yes to all three questions, some , maybe only two, and others maybe only one, but many will still take the job because that is all there is. Let's just say they don't take the job, we're still paying for their bennys. An employer's responsibility? Good question, and one where the word, "Morals" should be included some where in the answer. I'm a firm believer in the old adage, "When you pay peanuts, you get monkeys." I also believe that to a certain extent, the employer has to work for the workers in order to make them efficient, proud workers who know that doing your best, through hard work is rewarded. I believe an employer who goes on the TV and Radio airwaves proclaiming all they do for service to the community, should not make me pay for their worker's benefits if they can afford to do so. All while making a profit. Walmart's profits should matter to every one who pays the taxes that go to benefits that aids their workers. I am aware they have a responsibility to share holders, so perhaps some pay cuts to the executives (who receive all the treatment I just described) are in order.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    "Wal-Mart’s profit margin is about twice what Costco’s is. But its ROIC is only marginally higher: 13.77 percent vs. 12.88 percent. The company needs to put a lot more money into warehouses, trucks, whizzy computer systems, and cinderblock stores in order to generate those profits -- not surprising given the complexity of its supply chain, and the number of products it offers. Owners of capital generally ask to be compensated for using it to build stuff, rather than spending it. Wal-Mart is no exception. If it targeted Costco’s ROIC, rather than its own, Wal-Mart could free up a bit of money -- about a billion dollars. If it gave two-thirds of that billion to its 1.4 million U.S. workers, each worker would get about $470, or $9 a week.
    Walmart isn't hurting, and perhaps they should pay their workers another $9.00 a week, or apply it to a health care policy. It's not like they couldn't afford it. According my google home work this morning (Oh yeah, thanks for that, I really wanted to google Walmart profits this morning), after all the creative accounting, tax loop holes, interest, building, etc, Walmart had a net profit of $16.39 Billion in 2012. $17.76 Billion for 2013. They gross some where around $120 Billion.



    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Smart as me? heh, heh....Wow....Dave, I am not a college educated man, barely made through High School....Moved out of my dad's house at 17, worked in a grocery store, then worked in retail for a short time, then went in the military....When I got out, I couldn't use anything I learned while inside, because I didn't quite know how to apply that training to the outside world, so I ended up in car sales for a time, then started driving a truck....I have been a truck driver for 24 years now, and have over 3 million safe miles under my belt...Now, I am not rich, and I don't have the newest of everything, ie; the P.U. truck I drive to work is 16 years old, but I have a nice home, beautiful wife, and family, and everybody is fed, and housed, and clothed....There is more to wealth than money.

    The thing is Dave, as I have tried to teach my kids, (now 23, and 21 y.o.) is that life is about choices, and how willing one is to take the advice of those that have been there before you. If you are willing to go out and be the change to your life, then you will succeed in no matter what you decide to do, but if you plan to settle, then complain, bitch, and moan like so many I see in this thread, that it is so unfair, that someone else is to blame for their circumstance, rather than them taking responsibility and changing it themselves, then life will continue to run them over....
    I had good examples and work ethic instilled in me as a youngster. I heard encouraging words and was told I could do anything I wanted to. I was lucky, because I know me, had I grown up 2-houses down and had a different last name, I could be working at Walmart right now, and really situationally tied to that job. Two houses the other way are the Tea Party brothers who both collect Social Security and have Medicaid. I'm just sayin'.

  7. #567
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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Rather than blaming businesses that don't pay what 'YOUR' acceptable wage should be, why don't you look at why it is that Americans looking to raise a family on minimum wage starter jobs is becoming the norm....I would say that has more to do with current administration policy than any business model.
    Can you please explain this further?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    You don't seem to realize this, but there are far fewer opportunities for advancement in this country than you seem to think there are. For many, there is nowhere to move up to. You're doing exactly what I'm warning against. You're focusing on condemning other people for not being as well off as you. Good for you that you got some of the few good opportunities to go around. But there aren't enough of them, and some people don't luck out. "Planning for one's future" as you put it, is a very different thing when one is struggling to make rent, or when there are dozens or hundreds of applicants for every job one might want to move on to. You should check your ego and realize that people who are stuck are just that, stuck. They're not lazy or stupid, they're just stuck. And while the mentality you're espousing is common, more and more people will get stuck.

    Are you seriously assuming that I got into a middle class position in life (from a lower to middle middle class childhood where my FATHER bettered himself) by "luck"? Cuz that would be bull****. I worked all thru high school in both crummy mall jobs AND construction and office work for my father. I prepared for and went to college. I worked my way up in my field until I had to move into an office job where it was boring and sucked and I still wouldnt be able to afford a house...so I went BACK to school, while still working and living on practically nothing until I 'made' another career and opportunities for myself.

    I didnt do anything that 90% of the rest of the high school population couldnt do. If they dont want to target college, there are plenty of good trades and vocations out there too.

    No one that is not physically or mentally challenged has to accept minimum wage jobs their whole lives. (And even they do better, so I wont insult them). You can indeed move up in an organization...and any big corp has programs for that....or take the skills and experience you gain elsewhere and continue to move forward. I didnt say you'd get rich....but you can develop an actual career or skill set that has more value. And if you cant raise a family on it, then you should WAIT until you can. You are not 'entitled' to have a family.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #569
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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    In response to the bolded, basically, that we now have and will continue to have more people than jobs. What this implies is that a fixed amount of labor must be shared among ever more people, with fewer of them (or for less time) participating in producing anything (in any given time period). I suppose that the "fair" way to handle that situation is taking a job sharing approach, by alternating shifts either by the day, week, month, year or even career span. If we have 3 people for every 2 jobs then perhaps each will work only 2/3 of the shifts.
    That is correct. There will never again be enough labor to be done that everyone will toil like they're expected to now. We will just share the work, and this can produce one of two outcomes. Either we can decouple labor from remuneration, and simply divide the fruits of all of our labor among everyone, and all enjoy a comfortable life, or we can continue to make people compete to sell their labor, and produce an even more desperate working class, a permanent underclass, and a small powerful elite. We are going to have to change our basic notions unless we want to resemble a serf system again.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No Bob, you started out posting this to me....



    $15.7 Billion is what you said WalMart made....I have no problem with that....I posted an article that showed Walmart's total sales as $407 Billion for the same time period....then I asked you what percentage of profit $15.7 Billion was out of $407 Billion, then you tried to say with a CNN article that European stores brought in another amount, (why I don't know because we are talking about the US), and then when I rejected that attempt at deflection, you finally went to the Walmart posted spread sheet, but rather than the 3.8% that $15.7 Billion represents out of their $407 Billion sales you tried now to say that gross profit before operating expenses is what they make....



    Are you sure you even know what you said they made in the first place anymore?
    I still stand by post #562 in this thread and the chart I showed you earlier. And I really do not include "operating costs" in the equation because...well, everyone has "operating costs" -- it's just that some get to itemize those costs at the end of the tax year while others absorb them.
    "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

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