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Thread: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob N View Post
    Costco has no problems with it.
    So why dont they go work for Costco?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    To summarize my point, I don't necessarilly expect anything. But I want employers to pay a decent wage because it is unethical to pay a full-time worker less than they can live on. They may be able to get away with less than that because people are desperate, but it is still wrong. In other words, the same reason you don't expect to get mugged everytime you go outside, you hope people are better than that.
    Why is someone taking a job that doesnt pay enough not the responsibility of the worker? Why are they unskilled? Why are they in an unskilled job for years? Why is their skill level or experience or competency the responsibility of the employer to make up the difference for?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Its my opinion, one that is based on 'the do unto others..." principal. If I was an unskilled worker I would want a decent wage, not the lowest wage that the employer can get away with. As I said before, it is not an unusual opinion since the minimum wage is an (often inadequate] attempt to limit the exploitation of workers by employers.

    When I was completely unskilled I got paid minimum wage, but at that time (in the mid-197Os] that was enough to afford rent, food, basic clothes, and transportation to work. In many parts of the country that is no longer the case because the minmum wage has not kept up with increases in the cost of living.

    Why does the word exploit exist in the sense of "to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage?" At one point, if any, does a conservative or libertarian consider an employment practice to be exploitation?
    The Golden Rule?

    You are asking to suddenly be paid a lot more money for ZERO extra productivity - you are, in essence, asking for a handout.

    I have enough pride that unless I was in a life or death situation, that I would never ask for a handout.

    And I would NEVER expect an employer to pay me substantially more for ZERO additional productivity.


    As for your mid 70's assessment.

    The minimum wage in 1975 was $2.10/hour. That is (based on 2000 hours per year) $4200/yr in gross income. The poverty line in 1975 was $2902.

    In 2013, the minimum wage is $7.25 or (times 2000 hours) $14,500/yr. in gross income (and taxes are lower now - so you would take home slightly more after taxes). The official poverty line for 2013 is $11,490.

    Poverty in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Poverty Thresholds 1975 - U.S Census Bureau

    Here’s the US tax rate on your income for every year since 1913 – Quartz

    Though there has been some erosion - both are still far above the poverty line.

    And a definition of the 'poverty line' is:

    'poverty line
    noun
    noun: poverty line; plural noun: poverty lines
    1.
    the estimated minimum level of income needed to secure the necessities of life.
    '

    https://www.google.ca/search?q=pover...ine+definition

    So the United States minimum wage DOES provide enough money for someone to 'secure the necessities of life' and then some.


    Not that it matters since it is none of the employers responsibility...I am just sayin'.
    Last edited by DA60; 11-25-13 at 02:25 AM.

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    The idea that anyone's contribution, that anyone working a full week, is worth less than a comfortable middle class lifestyle, is repugnant, insane, and counterproductive to our society. Everyone works hard and no one should be devalued. If we do not change this basic attitude, increased efficiency and automation will render more and more of us devalued in the future. This mentality of trying to portray others as lesser is only going to hurt us all in the end.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    The idea that anyone's contribution, that anyone working a full week, is worth less than a comfortable middle class lifestyle, is repugnant, insane, and counterproductive to our society. Everyone works hard and no one should be devalued. If we do not change this basic attitude, increased efficiency and automation will render more and more of us devalued in the future. This mentality of trying to portray others as lesser is only going to hurt us all in the end.
    IMO the fact that so many people value themselves so little that they cannot bother to plan for their future that they leave high school and just 'let life happen' to them is sad. To start out at a basic unskilled job is no shame because you can develop skills and experience and move up from there. But to remain that way for years....to never better yourself...that's also even sadder. To expect to be BETTER compensated for that lack of drive, effort and personal responsibility? That is repugnant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  6. #546
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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    So why dont they go work for Costco?
    Might not be one in the area right now. But Costco is growing all the time so who knows.
    "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by DiavoTheMiavo View Post
    When it comes down to it, as always, we are this close to having the same ideals (picture about a quarter inch between the thumb and forefinger). We all want the same thing. Security, a wage that feeds us and pays the bills, an assurance that when we get sick, we can afford the medicine to make us well. AND hopefully, a better life for our kids. We all want that.
    Mornin' Dave. Yes, in certain areas we are close in some aspects, but don't confuse my compassion with any anti corporate sentiment. We all do want better, but it is up to us, not any obligation of a company that gives me a job....Do you know how many "jobs" I've had in my life? How many different things I have done since the good ol' days of 17 y.o. when I moved out of my fathers house?

    Now, you are not opposed to subsidizing Walmart workers . . . even though it affords $Billions in profits for Walmart to legally devise a hourly wage that forces you and me to pay for their employee's food and healthcare. Sometimes, their childcare is even included in the equation.
    No, this is a failure of our government, not the business community. Now, you want to rail that our government allows everything from childcare, to free cell phones, as really enticements for the welfare recipients vote? I am right there with you, but if you want to say that business has some obligation to make sure you can afford anything you want in your life all because you hire on to collect the shopping carts in the parking lot, then sorry, but that's ridiculous.

    I'm sorry, are we admiring corporations because they can afford lawyers and accountants that legally find ways for them to ditch their responsibility to their employees so it falls on our shoulders? Despite the $Billions in profits they make just because they let our tax dollars subsidize their employees?
    A companies profits are really NONE of the employees business. The only thing that should matter to the prospective employee is 1. Can I do the job? 2. Is the wage fair to me for what I am asked to do? 3. Can I see myself working there? If the answer to these three questions is 'yes' then they take the job, if not then they don't, simple as that. It really has nothing to do with the "macro" issues you are conflating this into. But, I remember when I was growing up, and my dad owned, and ran his Pharmacy downtown Lansing....So, I am interested to hear what you think the "employer responsibility to its employees" are....Here is an interesting excerpt from an article for you to consider....

    "Wal-Mart’s profit margin is about twice what Costco’s is. But its ROIC is only marginally higher: 13.77 percent vs. 12.88 percent. The company needs to put a lot more money into warehouses, trucks, whizzy computer systems, and cinderblock stores in order to generate those profits -- not surprising given the complexity of its supply chain, and the number of products it offers. Owners of capital generally ask to be compensated for using it to build stuff, rather than spending it. Wal-Mart is no exception. If it targeted Costco’s ROIC, rather than its own, Wal-Mart could free up a bit of money -- about a billion dollars. If it gave two-thirds of that billion to its 1.4 million U.S. workers, each worker would get about $470, or $9 a week.
    Of course, that leaves aside the issue of whether this is the “right” ROIC for Wal-Mart, or Costco, a question that has only metaphysical answers. I’d guess, however, that it’s considerably less than most of the people making these sort of comparisons would be expecting."

    Wal-Mart vs. Costco III, Why My Critics Are Wrong - Bloomberg

    I seriously do not get that mindset. Never will. I know welders that are out of work. I seriously know a bunch of electrical workers that wish a new subdivision would sprout up. There are 10:1 for electricians where I live.
    The key is, "where you live".... You are looking at this through the lens of your own compressed world....If the skills a person has are not in demand where you are, then maybe you have to move....

    Again . . . it is not equal for everyone and you act like everyone is smart as you.
    Smart as me? heh, heh....Wow....Dave, I am not a college educated man, barely made through High School....Moved out of my dad's house at 17, worked in a grocery store, then worked in retail for a short time, then went in the military....When I got out, I couldn't use anything I learned while inside, because I didn't quite know how to apply that training to the outside world, so I ended up in car sales for a time, then started driving a truck....I have been a truck driver for 24 years now, and have over 3 million safe miles under my belt...Now, I am not rich, and I don't have the newest of everything, ie; the P.U. truck I drive to work is 16 years old, but I have a nice home, beautiful wife, and family, and everybody is fed, and housed, and clothed....There is more to wealth than money.

    The thing is Dave, as I have tried to teach my kids, (now 23, and 21 y.o.) is that life is about choices, and how willing one is to take the advice of those that have been there before you. If you are willing to go out and be the change to your life, then you will succeed in no matter what you decide to do, but if you plan to settle, then complain, bitch, and moan like so many I see in this thread, that it is so unfair, that someone else is to blame for their circumstance, rather than them taking responsibility and changing it themselves, then life will continue to run them over....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    The idea that anyone's contribution, that anyone working a full week, is worth less than a comfortable middle class lifestyle, is repugnant, insane, and counterproductive to our society. Everyone works hard and no one should be devalued. If we do not change this basic attitude, increased efficiency and automation will render more and more of us devalued in the future. This mentality of trying to portray others as lesser is only going to hurt us all in the end.
    Rather than blaming businesses that don't pay what 'YOUR' acceptable wage should be, why don't you look at why it is that Americans looking to raise a family on minimum wage starter jobs is becoming the norm....I would say that has more to do with current administration policy than any business model.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    The idea that anyone's contribution, that anyone working a full week, is worth less than a comfortable middle class lifestyle, is repugnant, insane, and counterproductive to our society. Everyone works hard and no one should be devalued. If we do not change this basic attitude, increased efficiency and automation will render more and more of us devalued in the future. This mentality of trying to portray others as lesser is only going to hurt us all in the end.
    If the people taking the job from a company, don't agree to the wage offered, then they don't have to take the job.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Wal-Mart Asks Workers To Donate Food To Its Needy Employees

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    The idea that anyone's contribution, that anyone working a full week, is worth less than a comfortable middle class lifestyle, is repugnant, insane, and counterproductive to our society. Everyone works hard and no one should be devalued. If we do not change this basic attitude, increased efficiency and automation will render more and more of us devalued in the future. This mentality of trying to portray others as lesser is only going to hurt us all in the end.
    Are you sure that the lowest skilled workers are undervalued? IMHO, the idea that a McJob should pay a nearly the same wage as a tradesman (e.g. plumber, carpenter or electrician) makes little sense. Why would someone bother to learn more skills, work out in the elements, travel at their own expense (time and money) to far away job sites, buy their own tools and suffer random unpaid days off due to bad weather only to make slightly more money?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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