You are asking to suddenly be paid a lot more money for ZERO extra productivity - you are, in essence, asking for a handout.
I have enough pride that unless I was in a life or death situation, that I would never ask for a handout.
And I would NEVER expect an employer to pay me substantially more for ZERO additional productivity.
As for your mid 70's assessment.
The minimum wage in 1975 was $2.10/hour. That is (based on 2000 hours per year) $4200/yr in gross income. The poverty line in 1975 was $2902.
In 2013, the minimum wage is $7.25 or (times 2000 hours) $14,500/yr. in gross income (and taxes are lower now - so you would take home slightly more after taxes). The official poverty line for 2013 is $11,490.
Poverty in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Poverty Thresholds 1975 - U.S Census Bureau
Here’s the US tax rate on your income for every year since 1913 – Quartz
Though there has been some erosion - both are still far above the poverty line.
And a definition of the 'poverty line' is:
noun: poverty line; plural noun: poverty lines
the estimated minimum level of income needed to secure the necessities of life.'
So the United States minimum wage DOES provide enough money for someone to 'secure the necessities of life' and then some.
Not that it matters since it is none of the employers responsibility...I am just sayin'.
Last edited by DA60; 11-25-13 at 01:25 AM.
'What kind of sick and twisted toy factory is this?'
'We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile, and nothing can grow there. Too much, the best of us is washed away.'
"Better to be dead and cool, than alive and uncool."
The idea that anyone's contribution, that anyone working a full week, is worth less than a comfortable middle class lifestyle, is repugnant, insane, and counterproductive to our society. Everyone works hard and no one should be devalued. If we do not change this basic attitude, increased efficiency and automation will render more and more of us devalued in the future. This mentality of trying to portray others as lesser is only going to hurt us all in the end.
Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.
"The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson
No, this is a failure of our government, not the business community. Now, you want to rail that our government allows everything from childcare, to free cell phones, as really enticements for the welfare recipients vote? I am right there with you, but if you want to say that business has some obligation to make sure you can afford anything you want in your life all because you hire on to collect the shopping carts in the parking lot, then sorry, but that's ridiculous.Now, you are not opposed to subsidizing Walmart workers . . . even though it affords $Billions in profits for Walmart to legally devise a hourly wage that forces you and me to pay for their employee's food and healthcare. Sometimes, their childcare is even included in the equation.
A companies profits are really NONE of the employees business. The only thing that should matter to the prospective employee is 1. Can I do the job? 2. Is the wage fair to me for what I am asked to do? 3. Can I see myself working there? If the answer to these three questions is 'yes' then they take the job, if not then they don't, simple as that. It really has nothing to do with the "macro" issues you are conflating this into. But, I remember when I was growing up, and my dad owned, and ran his Pharmacy downtown Lansing....So, I am interested to hear what you think the "employer responsibility to its employees" are....Here is an interesting excerpt from an article for you to consider....I'm sorry, are we admiring corporations because they can afford lawyers and accountants that legally find ways for them to ditch their responsibility to their employees so it falls on our shoulders? Despite the $Billions in profits they make just because they let our tax dollars subsidize their employees?
"Wal-Mart’s profit margin is about twice what Costco’s is. But its ROIC is only marginally higher: 13.77 percent vs. 12.88 percent. The company needs to put a lot more money into warehouses, trucks, whizzy computer systems, and cinderblock stores in order to generate those profits -- not surprising given the complexity of its supply chain, and the number of products it offers. Owners of capital generally ask to be compensated for using it to build stuff, rather than spending it. Wal-Mart is no exception. If it targeted Costco’s ROIC, rather than its own, Wal-Mart could free up a bit of money -- about a billion dollars. If it gave two-thirds of that billion to its 1.4 million U.S. workers, each worker would get about $470, or $9 a week.
Of course, that leaves aside the issue of whether this is the “right” ROIC for Wal-Mart, or Costco, a question that has only metaphysical answers. I’d guess, however, that it’s considerably less than most of the people making these sort of comparisons would be expecting."
Wal-Mart vs. Costco III, Why My Critics Are Wrong - Bloomberg
The key is, "where you live".... You are looking at this through the lens of your own compressed world....If the skills a person has are not in demand where you are, then maybe you have to move....I seriously do not get that mindset. Never will. I know welders that are out of work. I seriously know a bunch of electrical workers that wish a new subdivision would sprout up. There are 10:1 for electricians where I live.
Smart as me? heh, heh....Wow....Dave, I am not a college educated man, barely made through High School....Moved out of my dad's house at 17, worked in a grocery store, then worked in retail for a short time, then went in the military....When I got out, I couldn't use anything I learned while inside, because I didn't quite know how to apply that training to the outside world, so I ended up in car sales for a time, then started driving a truck....I have been a truck driver for 24 years now, and have over 3 million safe miles under my belt...Now, I am not rich, and I don't have the newest of everything, ie; the P.U. truck I drive to work is 16 years old, but I have a nice home, beautiful wife, and family, and everybody is fed, and housed, and clothed....There is more to wealth than money.Again . . . it is not equal for everyone and you act like everyone is smart as you.
The thing is Dave, as I have tried to teach my kids, (now 23, and 21 y.o.) is that life is about choices, and how willing one is to take the advice of those that have been there before you. If you are willing to go out and be the change to your life, then you will succeed in no matter what you decide to do, but if you plan to settle, then complain, bitch, and moan like so many I see in this thread, that it is so unfair, that someone else is to blame for their circumstance, rather than them taking responsibility and changing it themselves, then life will continue to run them over....
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman