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Thread: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

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    Re: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

    >


    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    He had a right to shoot Trayvon if all he had done was broken his nose and proceeded to assault him. Anything beyond that is gravy, especially in our state (you will note I am from Florida and I also have a concealed weapons license).
    Then you should know that under Florida law (776.041) the initial aggressor losses the self-defense immunity under the principle that the individual that starts the aggression retains responsibility for their actions. However that immunity can be regained **IF** the individual attempts to retreat and clearly indicates such to their victim and the victim continues the use of force OR if after being the intial aggressor and exhausting every reasonable means of escape they then are in danger of great bodily harm or death.

    And see that is the kicker right there. It doesn't really matter whether Zimmerman or Martin was the initial aggressor. If it was Martin, Zimmerman always retained his self-defense immunity. However if it was Zimmerman, that say grabbed Martin, and it was Martin defending himself from an aggressor - at the point Martin was on top of Zimmerman (using the evidence presented at trial) - Zimmerman had no reasonable means of escape, at that point even if he was the aggressor he very well would have recovered his self-defense immunity.


    ************************


    Again I don't disagree with the verdict. What I do disagree with is those that claim they know for a fact that Martin "attacked" Zimmerman because "all the evidence says so". Well, sorry that isn't true. There is no independent evidence that corroborates Zimmerman story for that critical time between the phone call and John coming on scene. Either Zimmerman or Martin could have been the initial aggressor. We just don't know.

    See that's the difference though. I'm honest enough to say (a) the verdict was correct, and (b) we don't know. Some though are invested with carrying Zimmerman's water bucket now mater what the independent evidence showed or didn't show.



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    Re: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    What I do disagree with is those that claim they know for a fact that Martin "attacked" Zimmerman because "all the evidence says so". Well, sorry that isn't true.
    I do not believe anybody said what you put in quotes.
    But the only evidence is that Trayvon attacked.


    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    There is no independent evidence that corroborates Zimmerman story for that critical time between the phone call and John coming on scene.
    There does not need to be.
    That is what you are not understanding.


    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Either Zimmerman or Martin could have been the initial aggressor. We just don't know.
    Yes we do know by the evidence.
    Both Zimmerman and Rachel say Trayvon confronted Zimmerman first.


    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Some though are invested with carrying Zimmerman's water bucket now mater what the independent evidence showed or didn't show.
    Spare us.
    No one here is carrying his water bucket.
    The only evidence is that Trayvon attacked.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    THAT IS EXACTLY what I have been saying all along.
    Then we agree.
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    Re: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeafone View Post
    J, of course I get the difference ... after all, I wrote: "we have to live with the ACA law until the Congress repeals it" ... in fact, I'm willing to wager that you didn't know the difference and I probably taught you something ... you are most welcomed ... have a good night ...

    Hmmm....A bit of arrogance, denial of previous argument, and conflating two different situations to derail the thread....Check, check, and check...You need not 'disclose' your lean for people to know exactly what you are....It's boilerplate.
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    Re: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    >




    Then you should know that under Florida law (776.041) the initial aggressor losses the self-defense immunity under the principle that the individual that starts the aggression retains responsibility for their actions. However that immunity can be regained **IF** the individual attempts to retreat and clearly indicates such to their victim and the victim continues the use of force OR if after being the intial aggressor and exhausting every reasonable means of escape they then are in danger of great bodily harm or death.
    According to testimony (paraphrased because I am not going to go back and look up an entire trial for the exact phrasing to post in a thread about a totally different case)

    TM: What's your problem?! (Approaching Z as he walked back to his truck after losing sight of TM)

    Z: I don't have a problem....(Z walking down the path back to his truck, confronted by TM)

    TM: You do now!....(TM then clocks Z in the face, knocking him to the ground where TM continues to assault Z)

    These are the settled events of that night. Your burden is to show proof that it happened differently, not your opinion, not your supposition, not your own bias but factually prove it happened differently...You can't Mr. MP....

    And see that is the kicker right there. It doesn't really matter whether Zimmerman or Martin was the initial aggressor. If it was Martin, Zimmerman always retained his self-defense immunity. However if it was Zimmerman, that say grabbed Martin, and it was Martin defending himself from an aggressor - at the point Martin was on top of Zimmerman (using the evidence presented at trial) - Zimmerman had no reasonable means of escape, at that point even if he was the aggressor he very well would have recovered his self-defense immunity.
    That's a whole lot of "if's" you got there...In court that is known as a 'sustained objection'.

    Again I don't disagree with the verdict. What I do disagree with is those that claim they know for a fact that Martin "attacked" Zimmerman because "all the evidence says so". Well, sorry that isn't true. There is no independent evidence that corroborates Zimmerman story for that critical time between the phone call and John coming on scene. Either Zimmerman or Martin could have been the initial aggressor. We just don't know.
    Doesn't matter anymore. That trial is over...No matter your bias and ultimate wish that you could try it again, it is over...Now, can we talk about this case? Or are you still stuck on derailing the thread?

    See that's the difference though. I'm honest enough to say (a) the verdict was correct, and (b) we don't know. Some though are invested with carrying Zimmerman's water bucket now mater what the independent evidence showed or didn't show.
    Not a matter of carrying water anymore than you carrying water for the very racists that wanted to fry Z for not letting TM kill him. Yeah, that's right I said racists....When you cloud your judgement, and refuse to accept settled determinations continuing the line taken during the said settled trial, I can only assume that you do so because you are picking the defense you are due to race. And I'll tell you this, black people can be every bit as racists as white people, or hispanic people....So, do us a favor and let's get on to this case if you can, if you can't I don't really care, but start your own tantrum thread about how you don't agree that Z was not guilty, and you can re hash that case til you retire I don't care!

    General announcement: Listen people this was a simple story of George Zimmerman getting into an altercation with his current girlfriend, and being arrested for it. NOT the Treyvon Martin case which is settled. I, as the thread starter would appreciate it if those whom want to discuss the current situation that Z finds himself in please stay and discuss it, and those that want to rehash to all boring ends of the earth the TM case, please start your own thread and talk about it there...

    MODS please get a handle on the topic of this thread, thank you.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Hmmm....A bit of arrogance, denial of previous argument, and conflating two different situations to derail the thread....Check, check, and check...You need not 'disclose' your lean for people to know exactly what you are....It's boilerplate.
    J, no one on these threads, from what I've seen, is more transparent than you are, but that's neither here nor there, is it? ... you mistook tongue in cheek for arrogance, previous arguments are here for anyone to see that you're making stuff up, and just because you don't understand something doesn't mean someone is conflating something or trying to derail the thread ... you're becoming tiresome ... I may have to ignore you soon ...

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    Re: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    According to testimony (paraphrased because I am not going to go back and look up an entire trial for the exact phrasing to post in a thread about a totally different case)

    TM: What's your problem?! (Approaching Z as he walked back to his truck after losing sight of TM)

    Z: I don't have a problem....(Z walking down the path back to his truck, confronted by TM)

    TM: You do now!....(TM then clocks Z in the face, knocking him to the ground where TM continues to assault Z)

    These are the settled events of that night. Your burden is to show proof that it happened differently, not your opinion, not your supposition, not your own bias but factually prove it happened differently...You can't Mr. MP....



    That's a whole lot of "if's" you got there...In court that is known as a 'sustained objection'.



    Doesn't matter anymore. That trial is over...No matter your bias and ultimate wish that you could try it again, it is over...Now, can we talk about this case? Or are you still stuck on derailing the thread?



    Not a matter of carrying water anymore than you carrying water for the very racists that wanted to fry Z for not letting TM kill him. Yeah, that's right I said racists....When you cloud your judgement, and refuse to accept settled determinations continuing the line taken during the said settled trial, I can only assume that you do so because you are picking the defense you are due to race. And I'll tell you this, black people can be every bit as racists as white people, or hispanic people....So, do us a favor and let's get on to this case if you can, if you can't I don't really care, but start your own tantrum thread about how you don't agree that Z was not guilty, and you can re hash that case til you retire I don't care!

    General announcement: Listen people this was a simple story of George Zimmerman getting into an altercation with his current girlfriend, and being arrested for it. NOT the Treyvon Martin case which is settled. I, as the thread starter would appreciate it if those whom want to discuss the current situation that Z finds himself in please stay and discuss it, and those that want to rehash to all boring ends of the earth the TM case, please start your own thread and talk about it there...

    MODS please get a handle on the topic of this thread, thank you.
    J ... I'm disappointed ... when you start a thread you can't force people to discuss it in the way that you want them to ... for some folks, there is a connection ... let them discuss the issue as they wish ... ignore them otherwise ...

    and please don't call the moderators in every time you're unhappy about something ...

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    Re: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeafone View Post
    J ... I'm disappointed ... when you start a thread you can't force people to discuss it in the way that you want them to ... for some folks, there is a connection ... let them discuss the issue as they wish ... ignore them otherwise ...

    and please don't call the moderators in every time you're unhappy about something ...
    I don't and you know that. But this isn't about TM, or o-care or anything other than Z's latest arrest. Now, what say you about that?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I don't and you know that. But this isn't about TM, or o-care or anything other than Z's latest arrest. Now, what say you about that?
    as I indicated J ... that's the way some folks want to talk about it ... in fact, I read your exchange with another poster above and I thought it was a very good exchange, both of you making good points ... When Z was found not guilty, I understood the verdict and probably would've voted the same because of reasonable doubt, but I'm pretty sure he murdered TM ... but I'd rather let a guilty man go free than to convict an innocent one ... at the time I predicted on a different Board that sooner or later Z would be arrested, and maybe do jail time, so that's why it is relevant to me ... but I see why you don't think it is ... people think differently about things ...

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    Re: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    According to testimony (paraphrased because I am not going to go back and look up an entire trial for the exact phrasing to post in a thread about a totally different case)

    TM: What's your problem?! (Approaching Z as he walked back to his truck after losing sight of TM)

    Z: I don't have a problem....(Z walking down the path back to his truck, confronted by TM)

    TM: You do now!....(TM then clocks Z in the face, knocking him to the ground where TM continues to assault Z)

    I recommend going back and reviewing the trial (you can watch the whole thing on YouTube), you will find there was no "testimony" to any such thing. Zimmerman didn't testify at trial. That was what Zimmerman told the police, that was a statement (he did three general types written, audio, and video).

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    These are the settled events of that night. Your burden is to show proof that it happened differently, not your opinion, not your supposition, not your own bias but factually prove it happened differently...You can't Mr. MP....
    Just because Zimmerman "said" them means that, in the realm of the public. True the criminal trial is done, however that doesn't mean people in the general population are required to believe him. Some do, some don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That's a whole lot of "if's" you got there...In court that is known as a 'sustained objection'.
    This isn't a court.


    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Doesn't matter anymore. That trial is over...No matter your bias and ultimate wish that you could try it again, it is over...
    True, and as I've said, there was a lack of evidence for the charge submitted and the jury made the correct call.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Now, can we talk about this case? Or are you still stuck on derailing the thread?
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    General announcement: Listen people this was a simple story of George Zimmerman getting into an altercation with his current girlfriend, and being arrested for it. NOT the Treyvon Martin case which is settled. I, as the thread starter would appreciate it if those whom want to discuss the current situation that Z finds himself in please stay and discuss it, and those that want to rehash to all boring ends of the earth the TM case, please start your own thread and talk about it there...

    MODS please get a handle on the topic of this thread, thank you.

    Interesting, you spend the first part of this your post debating the criminal trial, and now admonish posters about something you were just doing yourself.

    But hey, I'm willing to respect your request.


    >>>>

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