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Thread: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

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    Re: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Did you pay so little attention that you didn't notice he was acquitted?
    Sarcasm....sarcasm...sarcasm lol.
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    Re: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    D'oh! Attacking is not standing your ground.
    There is no evidence that Martin "attacked" outside of the man who already lied to the court.


    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Being followed, is not a chase.

    Merriam-Webster
    Follow:: to go after or on the track of <let's follow the boys to their hiding place>
    Synonyms bird-dog, chase, course, dog, hound, pursue, run, shadow, tag, tail, trace, track, trail


    Ya, they are.


    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    No willingness to lie has been shown. Nor could it, as the evidence is not there.
    1. Zimmerman is on tape conspiring with his wife to hide assets.
    2. Florida law requires the defendant in a bail hearing to disclose all financial assets as part of the bail process.
    3. Zimmerman submitted to the court that he was indigent and had no money for bail.
    4. Zimmerman's $150,000 bond was revoked and he was re-incarcerated for lying to the court.
    5. In the Judges decision regarding the reincarnation and 2nd bond Judge Lester wrote: "The evidence is clear that the Defendant and his wife acted in concert, but primarily at the Defendant's direction, to conceal their cash holdings." Zimmerman had significant cash holdings, failed to report them as required under the law, he conspired to hide them, and claimed indigent status in court.

    Ya, his willingness to lie to the justice system has been shown.



    >>>>

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    Re: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    There is no evidence that Martin "attacked" outside of the man who already lied to the court.

    You are making a false statement based on an assumption that he lied. An assumption that can not been proven to be true.
    Secondly his account is evidence.

    Evidence that is supported by physical evidence.

    He fully cooperated, passed lie detection efforts and withstood multiple examinations by various officers.
    He more than came across as believable. He would not have withstood such scrutiny had he not been telling the truth.


    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Merriam-Webster
    Follow:: to go after or on the track of <let's follow the boys to their hiding place>
    Synonyms bird-dog, chase, course, dog, hound, pursue, run, shadow, tag, tail, trace, track, trail

    Ya, they are.

    No it is not.
    A synonym? Talk about idiotic reaching.


    Being followed, is not a chase.
    A chase is a pursuit in order to catch, or catch up. That is not what Zimmerman was doing.
    He was following to keep under observation. Not trying to catch.


    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    1. Zimmerman is on tape conspiring with his wife to hide assets.
    No he is not.
    That is nothing more than an interpretation that can not be shown to be true.


    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    2. Florida law requires the defendant in a bail hearing to disclose all financial assets as part of the bail process.
    And?
    You do not know if he was under the impression that donations for his legal and living expenses were reportable or not.
    You do not know that.
    If he was under the impression that it didn't need to be reported then there was no deliberate untruth.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    3. Zimmerman submitted to the court that he was indigent and had no money for bail.
    See above.


    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    4. Zimmerman's $150,000 bond was revoked and he was re-incarcerated for lying to the court.
    No it wasn't.
    An untruth is not necessarily a lie.
    Do you not know the difference?


    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    5. In the Judges decision regarding the reincarnation and 2nd bond Judge Lester wrote: "The evidence is clear that the Defendant and his wife acted in concert, but primarily at the Defendant's direction, to conceal their cash holdings." Zimmerman had significant cash holdings, failed to report them as required under the law, he conspired to hide them, and claimed indigent status in court.
    Yo mean Judge Lester? His opinion? The Judge who was removed from the case because of his bias against the accused? That Judge's opinion?
    iLOL
    D'oh!

    Did the Judge say he lied?
    Never-mind, it doesn't matter one bit as his opinion is not evidence.


    So again, show that he knew it needed to be reported.
    You can't because that evidence does not exist.

    So again. Trying to suggest he lied, especially without evidence of, to cast everything he said in a bad light, just doesn't work or fly.



    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Ya, his willingness to lie to the justice system has been shown.
    No it hasn't.

    And in regards to the specific charges and events of the actual incident...
    His account is evidence.

    Evidence that is supported by physical evidence.

    He fully cooperated, passed lie detection efforts and withstood multiple examinations by various officers.
    He came across as believable. You can not overcome these facts.
    He would not have withstood such scrutiny had he not been telling the truth.

    Nor are those facts countered by your opinion that he lied about another matter, an opinion that you can not shown to be true.
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    Re: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Evidence that is supported by physical evidence.
    There was no physical evidence showing who started the physical altercation, and no - evidence of minor injuries to the back of the head and a bloody nose is not evidence of who started the physical altercation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Nor are those facts countered by your opinion that he lied about another matter, an opinion that you can not shown to be true.
    The fact that he lied to the court is beyond reproach: there are court documents and audio evidence that have shown he lied without a shadow of a doubt.

    The mistake was, for some reason, when the prosecution filed to revoke his bond they failed to charge him with falsifying records, perjury, and conspiracy to defraud. Florida law provides that such charges can be filed at one degree below the charged offense, which in this case was Murder 2. That means he could have been tried for the falsification of records for a Felony 3. Still a pretty hefty charge that would have been handled after and separately from the Murder trial. Considering the status of the marriages (as we have since found out) they could probably have worked a plea deal with his wife for her testimony***. Because of the political charged nature of the case already though, they decided not to charge him for lying.



    *** Spousal exception against testimony in a criminal case applies to forced testimony based on a subpena. The spouse can testify freely on a voluntary basis.

    >>>>
    Last edited by WorldWatcher; 11-26-13 at 07:02 PM.

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    Re: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    There was no physical evidence showing who started the physical altercation, and no - evidence of minor injuries to the back of the head and a bloody nose is not evidence of who started the physical altercation.
    You are not paying attention.
    What he says is evidence. You have nothing to contradict it.
    What he says is supported by the physical evidence.

    Do you not know what "supported" means?

    His nose was injured just as he said he was hit. Go figure, huh?

    His account was that Tryavon was slamming his head.
    And low and behold, he has multiple impact injuries to the head. Go figure, huh?

    Your position is absurd.

    He fully cooperated, passed lie detection efforts and withstood multiple examinations by various officers.
    He came across as believable. You can not overcome these facts.
    He would not have withstood such scrutiny had he not been telling the truth.


    And as to your "minor injuries". Bs!
    The fact that he was having his head slammed is what matters. Not the extent of his injuries.



    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    The fact that he lied to the court is beyond reproach: there are court documents and audio evidence that have shown he lied without a shadow of a doubt.
    Wrong.
    There is no evidence showing he lied.
    None.

    You have to show he knew it had to be reported to show he lied, and you can not do so.
    It is nothing but an assumption on your part.
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    Re: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    You are not paying attention.
    What he says is evidence. You have nothing to contradict it.
    What he says is supported by the physical evidence.
    And my statements have been very clear "independent evidence" or "physical evidence". Zimmerman's story as the survivor is not independent evidence of his own story and there is no physical evidence that corroborates his story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    His nose was injured just as he said he was hit. Go figure, huh?
    That shows his nose was injured, it does nothing to show who started the physical altercation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    His account was that Tryavon was slamming his head.

    And low and behold, he has multiple impact injuries to the head. Go figure, huh?
    I know what his account is. However, Zimmerman's story as the survivor is not independent evidence of his own story and there is no physical evidence that corroborates his story.


    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Your position is absurd.
    My position is that the "not guilty" verdict was the correct verdict since the prosecution failed to prove it's case.

    Why is that "absurd"?

    Just because I think the verdict was correct doesn't mean I'm required to carry water for the guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    He fully cooperated, passed lie detection efforts and withstood multiple examinations by various officers.
    He came across as believable. You can not overcome these facts.
    To you he came across as believable. To others not so much.


    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    He would not have withstood such scrutiny had he not been telling the truth.
    We are talking about those few seconds between the end of the phone call records shows Martin was conducting and the first appearance of an eye witness on scene. It's pretty easy to be consistent with a story when you've killed the only other person that might present a different series of events.


    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    And as to your "minor injuries". Bs!
    The fact that he was having his head slammed is what matters. Not the extent of his injuries.
    A bloody nose and a couple of scrapes on the back of the head not needing any stitches.

    Even Zimmerman felt they were minor because he refused further treatment multiple times (once on scene per the EMT, again at the police station, and again the next day when he had to go to his doctor for a return to work note).

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Wrong.
    There is no evidence showing he lied.
    None.
    Wrong, there is audio tape of his conspiring to lie to the court.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    You have to show he knew it had to be reported to show he lied, and you can not do so.
    It is nothing but an assumption on your part.
    He did know. He had to file bail paperwork with the court. That paperwork would have required him to fill in finanical assets as per Florida law.

    If he "didn't know" that those assets should have been reported then he would have had no reason to conspire with his wife to hide them before the 1st bail hearing and wouldn't have made a petition to have the court delare him "indigent". You know what a request for "indigent" status means right? It means you have know money, yet Zimmerman knew he had about $350,000 in personal accounts.

    Remember the wife's trial is over and she now has a perjury conviction. It wouldn't have gone any better for George, the saving grace is since they were already prosecuting him for Murder they opted to just revoke his bond, send him back to jail, and redo a new bond of $1,000,000.

    >>>>
    Last edited by WorldWatcher; 11-26-13 at 09:24 PM.

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    Re: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Your loose analogy is completely wrong in this case. Although I take your point that the law was passed, albeit along total partisan lines, and rammed through under shady circumstance to say the least, it is none the less at the moment law. And the verdict in the TM case is settled as well. Where your attempt falls apart is in that the O-care law can be reconsidered, and repealed if enough in Congress vote for it to happen. The TM case will always be settled. You get the difference right?
    J, of course I get the difference ... after all, I wrote: "we have to live with the ACA law until the Congress repeals it" ... in fact, I'm willing to wager that you didn't know the difference and I probably taught you something ... you are most welcomed ... have a good night ...

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    Re: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    And my statements have been very clear "independent evidence" or "physical evidence". Zimmerman's story as the survivor is not independent evidence of his own story and there is no physical evidence that corroborates his story.
    Are you suggesting he provide physical evidence? Are you suggesting that he most prove his innocence? Or are you merely making conjecture that you think he lied? Because your opinion is irrelevant. There is enough evidence to give credence to his account, and there is not enough evidence to cast doubt on his account.

    Anything else is merely your bias opinion on the matter. End of story.


    That shows his nose was injured, it does nothing to show who started the physical altercation.
    Broken.



    I know what his account is. However, Zimmerman's story as the survivor is not independent evidence of his own story and there is no physical evidence that corroborates his story.
    There IS physical evidence. You are 100% wrong. All evidence can cooperate his story. There is NO evidence that undermines his story.

    Right now your only 2 arguments are: did he twisted the story to suit facts? Or that there is physical evidence in existence that is not accounted for in his story?




    My position is that the "not guilty" verdict was the correct verdict since the prosecution failed to prove it's case.
    So you think this was a failure on the prosecutions part? You think a better prosecutor could have gotten a conviction? Is there some piece of evidence that is not accounted for that the prosecution ignored? That they failed on?

    Perhaps if you argued for a lesser charge that might be logical, but even then I suggest you provide evidence of Zimmerman's guilt to a lesser charge?


    Just because I think the verdict was correct doesn't mean I'm required to carry water for the guy.
    No. In fact I think Zimmerman is a stone cold dumbass. That doesn't make him guilty though.

    But don't lie. You don't agree with the verdict. You disagree with the verdict. You agree with the. Logic of the verdict...which would require higher standards of evidence than could have been provided to prove his guilt...but not the actual verdict. Why else would you make the case against it?



    We are talking about those few seconds between the end of the phone call records shows Martin was conducting and the first appearance of an eye witness on scene. It's pretty easy to be consistent with a story when you've killed the only other person that might present a different series of events.
    It is not easy to be consistent. In fact eye witness testimony is further and further being shown to be unreliable. In addition minor details can certainly be mixed up. But this isn't a case of a few seconds. This case also includes the 4 missing minutes of Martin's location. Did he exit the scene and return? He had 80 yards to cover in 4 minutes. That shows intent...if he returned to the scene of the incident and confronted Zimmerman. And yes...that is legal...but physically assaulting someone is not. And the only evidence we have...is Zimmerman's story, but his story is backed by physical evidence.

    A bloody nose and a couple of scrapes on the back of the head not needing any stitches.
    BROKEN. Not just bloody!!! He did not deviate his septum. That doesn't mean he did not break his nose. And really at that point it doesn't matter. He had a right to shoot Trayvon if all he had done was broken his nose and proceeded to assault him. Anything beyond that is gravy, especially in our state (you will note I am from Florida and I also have a concealed weapons license).


    Even Zimmerman felt they were minor because he refused further treatment multiple times (once on scene per the EMT, again at the police station, and again the next day when he had to go to his doctor for a return to work note).
    Irrelevant. One's refusal of treatment is not evidence of the severity. Do you know what a DNR is?

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_not_resuscitate


    Pain tolerance, fear of doctors, desire not to be treated for fear of being viewed as pansy for getting your ass kicked by a 17 year old kid, or even just plain old stubbornness are all good enough reasons to make someone refuse treatment. The fact is...and you CANNOT ARGUE THIS HAS BEEN TESTIFIED IN COURT...his injuries were consistent with a physical confrontation. Martin had no defensive wounds. Only a gun shot wound. What does that physical evidence provide for you?
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    Re: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    And my statements have been very clear "independent evidence" or "physical evidence". Zimmerman's story as the survivor is not independent evidence of his own story and there is no physical evidence that corroborates his story.
    Stop with your nonsense.
    His injuries support his account.

    John corroborates part of it, which just adds more believability to Zimmerman's account.


    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    That shows his nose was injured, it does nothing to show who started the physical altercation.
    And yet it supports his account, that he was struck. As stated.


    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    I know what his account is. However, Zimmerman's story as the survivor is not independent evidence of his own story and there is no physical evidence that corroborates his story.

    What you quoted was supporting evidence of his account, and yeah it does corroborate his claim of such.
    His account was that Trayvon was slamming his head.
    And low and behold, he has multiple impact injuries to the head. Go figure, huh?
    Which is consistent with having your head slammed into something hard, as testified to.

    That physical evidence is corroboration of that portion of his account.


    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    My position is that the "not guilty" verdict was the correct verdict since the prosecution failed to prove it's case.
    The prosecution couldn't prove their case because they had none.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Why is that "absurd"?
    I have already stated why the position you took was absurd.
    There is evidence that supports his account and corroborates it.
    His nose was injured just as he said he was hit. Go figure, huh?
    His account was that Trayvon was slamming his head.
    And low and behold, he has multiple impact injuries to the head. Go figure, huh?

    He fully cooperated, passed lie detection efforts and withstood multiple examinations by various officers.
    He came across as believable. You can not overcome these facts.
    He would not have withstood such scrutiny had he not been telling the truth.

    There is no reason, or evidence to disbelieve his account.


    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Just because I think the verdict was correct doesn't mean I'm required to carry water for the guy.
    No one said you should.
    But what you are doing and suggesting flies in the face of the actual evidence.


    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    To you he came across as believable. To others not so much.
    iLOL
    His account is believable and came across that way to anybody that looked at it fairly. Especially to those who looked at the evidence in toto.

    Like the Police investigating it.


    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    We are talking about those few seconds between the end of the phone call records shows Martin was conducting and the first appearance of an eye witness on scene. It's pretty easy to be consistent with a story when you've killed the only other person that might present a different series of events.
    Easy to be consistent?
    Bs!
    Besides John, he had no idea who, if any, or how many, saw or heard what. He had no idea.
    You are grasping.
    So can it.


    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    A bloody nose and a couple of scrapes on the back of the head not needing any stitches.

    Even Zimmerman felt they were minor because he refused further treatment multiple times (once on scene per the EMT, again at the police station, and again the next day when he had to go to his doctor for a return to work note).
    iLOL

    Assessment after the fact.
    So again ...
    Assessment after the fact matters not.
    The fact that he was having his head slammed is what matters. Not the extent of his injuries.


    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Wrong, there is audio tape of his conspiring to lie to the court.
    No there is not.


    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    He did know. He had to file bail paperwork with the court. That paperwork would have required him to fill in finanical assets as per Florida law.
    Which does not speak to whether or not he knew that donations were reportable as such.
    Even Lester didn't know when it was first brought up. Duh!


    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    If he "didn't know" that those assets should have been reported then he would have had no reason to conspire with his wife to hide them before the 1st bail hearing and wouldn't have made a petition to have the court delare him "indigent". You know what a request for "indigent" status means right? It means you have know money, yet Zimmerman knew he had about $350,000 in personal accounts.

    There was no conspiracy to hide anything from the court.
    You are in the realm of make believe.


    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Remember the wife's trial is over and she now has a perjury conviction. It wouldn't have gone any better for George, the saving grace is since they were already prosecuting him for Murder they opted to just revoke his bond, send him back to jail, and redo a new bond of $1,000,000.
    Yes and Shelli's lawyer said she could have fought it but chose not to. Big-whoopti-do. Her plea is meaningless to George, and proves nothing against him

    And the Prosecutor didn't file against him did they? The statute of limitations surely did not run out, did it?
    They couldn't prove any such thing against him. Hence the lack of filing.
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    Re: George Zimmerman Arrested Again In Central Florida [W:351]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Are you suggesting he provide physical evidence?
    Nope, I'm saying that some on these boards consider Zimmerman's word as gospel as to who started the initial altercation, I'm simply pointing out that there is no independent evidence other that Zimmerman's side of the story as to who actually started the fight.

    That's it.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Are you suggesting that he most prove his innocence?
    Nope, it was the prosecutions responsibility to prove his guilt. They didn't do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Or are you merely making conjecture that you think he lied?
    Because your opinion is irrelevant. There is enough evidence to give credence to his account, and there is not enough evidence to cast doubt on his account.
    There is no independent evidence that Martin "attacked" Zimmerman. No physical evidence and no witness evidence to confirm or refute Zimmerman's story.

    Some say it is "fact" that Martin "attacked" Zimmerman, there is no corroborating evidence to definitively say what happened in those few seconds between Martin's phone call ending and when John came on the scene.


    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Broken.
    Maybe, maybe not. We'll never know. The EMT's said it was possible, his doctor the next day when he was getting a return to work not said it was possible. But Zimmerman refused treatment and x-rays to confirm.


    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    There IS physical evidence. You are 100% wrong. All evidence can cooperate his story. There is NO evidence that undermines his story.
    There is NO, ZERO, NADA, ZIP indepentent evidence that corroborates that Martin attacked Zimmerman in those few seconds between when the phone call ended and before the first eye witness ("John") came out his back door.

    Evidence of Zimmerman loosing the fight is not evidence that Martin started the fight.


    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Right now your only 2 arguments are: did he twisted the story to suit facts? Or that there is physical evidence in existence that is not accounted for in his story?
    You may be misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying Zimmerman lied about Martin attacking him, I'm not saying he's telling the truth.

    What I've said is that there is no evidence (other than Zimmerman's story) about what happened in those seconds after the phone call and before John came on scene. He could be telling the truth, he could be lying, we don't know.


    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    So you think this was a failure on the prosecutions part? You think a better prosecutor could have gotten a conviction? Is there some piece of evidence that is not accounted for that the prosecution ignored? That they failed on?
    I think the prosecutor failed on a couple of things. One they overcharged the case at Murder 2. That was a political move that backfired. Murder 2 required them to prove (under Florida law) a "depraved mind". They would have been better structuring a case targeting Manslaughter or Negligent Homicide. Even then though it would have been tough. Secondly they made the defenses case by letting Zimmerman "testify" through the police interviews.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Perhaps if you argued for a lesser charge that might be logical, but even then I suggest you provide evidence of Zimmerman's guilt to a lesser charge?
    I've said for over a year that Murder 2 was an overcharge.


    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    No. In fact I think Zimmerman is a stone cold dumbass. That doesn't make him guilty though.
    I agree. I'd have voted "not guilty", the proscution just didn't have the evidence to convict in this case.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    But don't lie. You don't agree with the verdict. You disagree with the verdict.
    Here is a deal. You tell me what you think and I'll tell you what I think. I don't need you to tell me what I think.

    Here is what I think:

    1. Zimmerman is a dumbass. We agree.

    2. The verdict was correct. The prosecution didn't prove Murder 2.


    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    You agree with the. Logic of the verdict...which would require higher standards of evidence than could have been provided to prove his guilt...but not the actual verdict. Why else would you make the case against it?


    I'm not making a case against the verdict. What I have done is disagree with those that come on here and state as a "fact" that Martin "attacked" Zimmerman. We don't know that as a "fact" all there is to support it is Zimmerman's account of those few seconds between the end of the phone call and John coming on scene. Just because Zimmerman said so does not make it "fact". That's it, that's all I've disagreed with.

    Given that those seconds are an "unknown", the "innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" applies. There is a reasonable doubt, therefore the verdict is correct. Just because I think the verdict is correct doesn't mean that Zimmerman story has to accepted as gospel.


    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    It is not easy to be consistent. In fact eye witness testimony is further and further being shown to be unreliable. In addition minor details can certainly be mixed up. But this isn't a case of a few seconds. This case also includes the 4 missing minutes of Martin's location. Did he exit the scene and return? He had 80 yards to cover in 4 minutes. That shows intent...if he returned to the scene of the incident and confronted Zimmerman. And yes...that is legal...but physically assaulting someone is not. And the only evidence we have...is Zimmerman's story, but his story is backed by physical evidence.
    No, it's not the "4 minutes", it's the few seconds which I've been addressing. We have time stamps based on Martins phone call and the first 911 call being received. THAT is the period of time where there is an unknown.

    Secondly, the time from Martin running away from the vehicle, most of which phone records show he was in contact with another person don't matter because Martin was under NO requirement to retreat if he felt danger from the weird guy that had chased/pursued/followed him across the housing development in his vehicle and then on foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    BROKEN. Not just bloody!!! He did not deviate his septum. That doesn't mean he did not break his nose. And really at that point it doesn't matter.
    No medical records were entered showing the nose was broken. The EMT's said it was possible, the Doctor said it was possible - but Zimmerman refused treatment and the tests to confirm. Go make and review the EMT report and the testimony at trial.


    >>>>

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