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Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges[W:287]

Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

The Mark said:
It seemed necessary to me.
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Obviously.
But like I said; "Maybe you should forward that information along to the Prosecutor. She may find it helpful."
As she is the one who stated there was a storm door open and screen door locked.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

Excon said:
Obviously.
But like I said; "Maybe you should forward that information along to the Prosecutor. She may find it helpful."
As she is the one who stated there was a storm door open and screen door locked.
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Just can't let that 3 door philosophy go, can you?

Bwaahaahaahaa!
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

SMTA said:
Just can't let that 3 door philosophy go, can you?
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You can't?
Do tell.

Bwaahaahaahaa! :lamo
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

Excon said:
You can't?
Do tell.

Bwaahaahaahaa! :lamo
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Lack of critical original thinking.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

SMTA said:
Lack of critical original thinking.
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Says you.

Bwaahaahaahaa! :lamo
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

shrubnose said:
I agree. That young lady should still be alive, but charging the guy with murder is over the line.
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Correct, but all over the USA that's the way that a lot of prosecuting attorneys play the game, they overcharge people with the idea of negotiating down and getting an easy, low cost win.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

Excon said:
You made an assumption.

​
That clearly is an assumption.
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No it isn't. The shot was to the face, which simply means that the shot could have been at face level. Your photo doesn't show face level, so it was useless. No assumption.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

Dezaad said:
Your photo doesn't show face level, so it was useless.
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Wrong.
That is an assumption, because as already stated, you do not know where her face was at the time.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

Excon said:
Wrong.
That is an assumption, because as already stated, you do not know where her face was at the time.
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It is useless unless it shows all the possible places her face might reasonably have been. No Assumption about where her face was.

To clarify: When you don't know where her face was, any photograph (or collection of photos) attempting to illuminate the situation would have to show all the places where her face might reasonably have been. If it does not do this, it is useless. We don't know where her face was, therefore your photo was useless.

The information comprised by the photo you posted cannot be used to establish any point of fact that I am interested in. Therefore it is useless to me, and it is useless to anyone attempting to examine the same point of fact as I am. The point of fact we are interested in is whether his shot went through the door in the photo. Since it doesn't show the whole door, it cannot be used to establish that point of fact. I.E.: it is useless toward that end.

If the photo were only of the face level of the door, that photo of the face level would be equally useless.

If a photo of the lower half of the door was combined with another photo of the face level of the door, the photo of the lower half of the door would become useful, because the information about the door would be complete. In other words, information of this kind isn't useful unless it is complete. At least not to me, and that is what matters as to whether or not I have made any assumptions.

And this is the end of this discussion for me.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

Dezaad said:
And this is the end of this discussion for me.
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It should be, as you were wrong and assumed when you shouldn't have.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

I agree the guy should be criminally prosecuted, but I'm not getting why 2nd Degree Murder is such a stretch. The guy opened his front door, the girl was standing on the other side of a screen door, he pointed a shotgun at her face and pretty much blew her head off through the screen door. He was in no danger; he knew he was in no danger. All he had to do was leave his door locked and call 911.

If this isn't reckless disregard for human life, I don't know what is. :shrug:
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

DiAnna said:
I agree the guy should be criminally prosecuted, but I'm not getting why 2nd Degree Murder is such a stretch. The guy opened his front door, the girl was standing on the other side of a screen door, he pointed a shotgun at her face and pretty much blew her head off through the screen door. He was in no danger; he knew he was in no danger. All he had to do was leave his door locked and call 911.

If this isn't reckless disregard for human life, I don't know what is. :shrug:
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His argument is that he both felt threatened and accidentally discharged his weapon.

Apparently.

Personally, that seems a bit sketchy to me, but we'll see.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

MaggieD said:
Apparently, the DA is not prepared to buy his "oops." According to a story I read (not sure about above), she knocked on a locked screen door. There was no evidence of attempted forced entry.

Michigan has a stand-your-ground law. Now. Will people PLEASE stop griping that it's a license to kill????
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I await the outcome of the trial and/or anything else that might be the outcome. Just charging him, that's not enough.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

The Mark said:
His argument is that he both felt threatened and accidentally discharged his weapon.

Apparently.

Personally, that seems a bit sketchy to me, but we'll see.
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It sounds sketchy to me too

The guy hears someone at his front door - OK
He feels like his life is threatened - OK
So he gets his gun - OK
and opens the front door --WTF???

There could some sequence of events that make his actions make sense, but I'm not seeing it.

But life is strange. We'll have to wait to hear the details.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

Manc Skipper said:
People are already blaming the victim for staggering too far while seeking help.
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Why is it assumed she was seeking help?

There was a group of people at the accident scene helping her.

I guess we willnever know why she did what she did, but I don't asume she was seeking help.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

Deuce said:
How does shooting somebody in the back of the head not involve malice?

edit: Hrm, this article says she was shot in the face. A different one I read said back of the head. Hooray for journalism.
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Nvermind
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

DiAnna said:
I agree the guy should be criminally prosecuted, but I'm not getting why 2nd Degree Murder is such a stretch. The guy opened his front door, the girl was standing on the other side of a screen door, he pointed a shotgun at her face and pretty much blew her head off through the screen door. He was in no danger; he knew he was in no danger. All he had to do was leave his door locked and call 911.

If this isn't reckless disregard for human life, I don't know what is. :shrug:
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When did the prosecutor release evidence to prove he "aimed" at her face? I haven't seen that yet.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

Mason66 said:
Nvermind
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At the start, the family told the press and media she was shot in the back of the head.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

Mason66 said:
Why is it assumed she was seeking help?

There was a group of people at the accident scene helping her.

I guess we willnever know why she did what she did, but I don't asume she was seeking help.
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I've not read that there were folks at the scene at the time she left the scene. Regardless, leaving the scene of an accident due to drunkenness or other form of disorientation or just because she f'ing felt like is no reason to shoot someone through a locked door based on any information to date.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

sangha said:
It sounds sketchy to me too

The guy hears someone at his front door - OK
He feels like his life is threatened - OK
So he gets his gun - OK
and opens the front door --WTF???

There could some sequence of events that make his actions make sense, but I'm not seeing it.

But life is strange. We'll have to wait to hear the details.
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Most people will open their front door if someone is knocking. And some will answer the door while having a gun - though most don't openly display it initially. Rather, it is a reserve "just in case." Many people also will go outside their home to investigate if they hear noises.

It is important to remember there would be essentially no reason to call the police given typical non-emergency response times. Just because police rushed to the scene on a call of someone shot does not mean they rush to the scene of "I heard suspicious noises" or "someone is knocking on my door."

Have any of you - ever -called the police for someone knocking on your door?
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

joko104 said:
Most people will open their front door if someone is knocking. And some will answer the door while having a gun - though most don't openly display it initially. Rather, it is a reserve "just in case." Many people also will go outside their home to investigate if they hear noises.

It is important to remember there would be essentially no reason to call the police given typical non-emergency response times. Just because police rushed to the scene on a call of someone shot does not mean they rush to the scene of "I heard suspicious noises" or "someone is knocking on my door."

Have any of you - ever -called the police for someone knocking on your door?
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Yes, and they were there in short order. I was instructed to stay on the phone with 911 til they arrived. They let me know when they were there, where they were searching around the house, that they found nothing and did I need them to come check inside?
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

If it goes to trial, this will be the Defense's case:

He was in the deepest sleep at 3:40 AM when she knocked on the door. This awoke him, but he wasn't sure if he had heard a knock on the door? Or some other noise? Or even certain he had heard anything at all. But before going back to sleep he thought he would look outside. A high crime area, he grabs his shotgun - still not fully awake.
He opens the front door and he sees someone covered in blood coming towards him and in the instant he flinches or even momentarily panics - firing one time. He would stress the time, that it was night, he half awake and the person coming at him all bloody.
Then, maybe the Defense would point out he's never been in trouble with violence and law in his life, and nothing hints he had any desire to kill her or anyone else. Now is he a murderer for her irrational and illegal behavior maybe under the influence of something and on run from the police? That in that terrifying instant he was terrified?

The crime of opening his door? What would you do if someone came right towards and only a few feet away covered in blood in the middle of the night when you opened your door? Figure a nylon screen protects you? Have time to figure anything? And present experts on how people can react beyond their control in sudden terrifying moments.

That will be the defense if a likely plea deal isn't made quietly many months from now.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

joko104 said:
If it goes to trial, this will be the Defense's case:

He was in the deepest sleep at 3:40 AM when she knocked on the door. This awoke him, but he wasn't sure if he had heard a knock on the door? Or some other noise? Or even certain he had heard anything at all. But before going back to sleep he thought he would look outside. A high crime area, he grabs his shotgun - still not fully awake.
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You are off on the first portion because he stated she had been banging on his door. Not knocking.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

If the man was rich, this would be an interesting study by the defense team. Then have experts study what happened to testify on it.

Dress someone up in a wig, mask and as she was dressed, same size, and also pour fake blood on her face and clothing. Then have this person knock on doors about the same time of the night in that area - to see how many ultimately do come out to check their property. Of those who do open the door, have the actor then come at the person for a distance the shot was fired - video taping the person's reaction. It is not a crime to knock on people's doors, so the study would be legal.

Since only "murderers" would react violently, this is an entirely safe study, right? I suspect the video would show 2 things consistently. Some people do open their door. Some people totally freak out momentarily and do not do what is the most rational thing to do - and that some flinch and lash out in one way or another momentarily.

If that actor knocked on a police officers' houses doors, how to you think the officers would react in the same situation? It would interesting seeing such videos.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

Excon said:
You are off on the first portion because he stated she had been banging on his door. Not knocking.
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OK, I did not read that. Replace the word "knock" with "bang."
 
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