Page 40 of 42 FirstFirst ... 303839404142 LastLast
Results 391 to 400 of 414

Thread: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges[W:287]

  1. #391
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:41 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,568
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    From what I hear about this story, it seems this girl knocked on his door and was shot. That is murder. For this to be anything other than murder he would need a have had a reason to shoot her. Some type of threat would have to be established. Knocking on a door is not a threat. Doesnt matter if you dont know who they are, or the time of day or night. Knocking on a door, even drunken strangers in the middle of the night, is not adequate provocation to shoot someone.
    We don't know what she was doing when he opened the door.

  2. #392
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:41 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,568
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges


    History proves how right you are. Those damn South blacks having a right to self defense? Look at what happened after African-Americans were given legal right to protect themselves from the KKK? We need to return to when people don't have a right to stand their ground, particularly against racially oriented harassment and attacks. Like you say, when white folks tell blacks to get out of their neighborhood they better git going!

  3. #393
    Educator
    MichaelJR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Suckachusetts
    Last Seen
    05-25-16 @ 09:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,089

    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    I get my information from the FBI crime database. You know, that little thing compiled by information provided by every local/state/federal police department in the country.

    As for the "right", see my leaning? I'm not a member of the right. Couldn't be further from it.

    You do realize you just utilized NPR/southern center/ny-metro/and a left owned and operated legal 'source', as a source, and you're talking about bias? I'm utilizing raw, compiled numbers. CDC and FBI. Not exactly debatable or up for interpretation.

    Again, not right wing. I doesn't get more 'down to the details' than the crime database. Probably the only thing the FBI gets right. The number of times guns are used in self defense (being either shot, drawn, or otherwise) cannot be completely clear, because often times the issue itself is unreported or dismissed. Estimated FBI numbers are between 230,000 and 300,000 times per year. Attempted assaults, rapes, home invasions, etc etc etc you get the picture.
    How many times did instances such as Renisha McBride occur?
    Last edited by MichaelJR; 11-22-13 at 05:42 PM.

  4. #394
    Sage
    Kreton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Last Seen
    11-13-17 @ 08:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    6,118

    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    We don't know what she was doing when he opened the door.
    No we dont. And going forward something may come out that changes my mind. But without knowing what she was doing, that sounds like murder. There is another thread on the polls page where someone posted the standard in which Michigan qualifies murder 2. Part of it stated "a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life". That seems to be the case here. This guy opened his door and pointed it at her face then claimed he "accidently" pulled the trigger. I dont buy that. If you point a gun at someones face with your finger on the trigger there is no more accident.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


  5. #395
    Professor
    Tettsuo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    2,321

    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR View Post
    Take the car out of the equation. Say, you're a subject of NYC (see what I did there). Now obviously, in NYC, the only people that are allowed to carry guns are cops, celebrities, the connected few, and criminals.

    You're walking down the street, presumably back to your place from friends house, 5 blocks. You have no car. Not unheard of, actually it's the norm there. Same situation happens. You're now confronted with the choice to retreat, potentially being stabbed in the back, tackled, etc....this is a real issue. Obviously, in NYC, guns are a nono, knives are the same deal. NYC is dark, loaded with trash, alleys, dark places. You could be murdered and not found for quite some time. They know this, and they know that if you get a good look at them, your life is far more valuable to them extinguished than able to hit them in a line-up. Tackled from behind, as a female with even just one perp on you, the odds are stacked against you, major. NYPD blue is not there to save the day unless they know what is happening, and even then, let's say response time was 10 minutes....ever been in a fight? I have. Most last between 5 - 20 seconds and result in someone being incapacitated to some degree. An attack is a whole different form of brutality. It's savage, fast, and typically perpetrated by a seasoned criminal not afraid of going that 'extra mile' to make sure they remain free and on the streets. If you've ever been a victim of one, or even seen a video of a mugging/assault/whatever, this is not a square up and go punch for punch street fight. There are no rules, there is no soft landing mat, no gloves. These self defense courses people take assume you see the person coming. They are in front of you. You can grab their right wrist and mr. miogi them into a judo throw. Real life doesn't work like that. In real life, you went to grab his wrist with some unrealistic joe-kwon-dough (clever ey?) move you learned at the YMCA, and took about 6 stabs to the lower abdomen, and one to the arm. Better hope that brachial artery isn't slashed, otherwise things are going to start getting real fuzzy soon. Can't see that phone screen? No kidding slapshot, you're experiencing massive blood loss and your suffering from cerebral hypoxia. You'll pass out soon enough, don't worry, you literally won't remember a thing, ever.

    People look at the world through foggy, naive glasses. There is real evil out there. The law is nothing more than an illusion, a suggestion to promote law and order with the wishful thinking that people will follow it. There is no magical bloomberg bubble, blue lights and ambulances don't show up when it goes down, there will be no backup to help. You'll be another number, a small folder on a detectives desk to add to the pile, your family will be upset, and you'll be extremely dead.

    OR...

    You don't run. You're armed. You have an even playing field and you can defend yourself. These lovely young upstanding members of society that 'were just turning their lives around' have no idea what bees nest they just stepped on. You're no longer dead. You live to see another day, go home to your family, play Parcheesi in peters parlor with patricia and patrick, partaking in the....something that begins with P.

    This is how the world really works. The weak are prey, the strong survive. In a world of wolves, you need teeth (sharp ones ideally). I'm not paranoid, I don't walk around with bugged out eyes with my hand on my gun all sweaty and weirded out, waiting for this theoretical gang of killers to come and rob me for my Tag and shoes. I am however, a realist. I realize that the crime stats in this country (in urban areas primarily) are not exactly stellar. I made a conscious decision to even the playing field by carrying wherever I go. Don't want to get eaten by the wolves? Act/think like one, grow some teeth, you'll at least have a fighting chance....or run/hide/roll up into a ball and please, take your chances, let me know how it goes.

    As for shooting out of the car, highly discourage that. First of all, only 1/12 handgun shootings result in a fatality. You do NOT want this guy bringing up a civil case, or worse, his/her family. You'll spend your kids college fund and an equity loan trying to keep yourself out of jail. More advisable, use that damn car. I'll take 3500+ lbs of metal for mounting a defense any day of the week over a pistol if the car is in drive and ready to rock. Best defense is a good offense. My car fits the bill.
    If you can retreat, do so. What you described isn't a situation where retreat is possible, so I don't see what point you're trying to make.

    I'm in no way saying you can't defend yourself. I'm saying stand your ground does not mean going out of your way in such a manner that it turns standing your ground into aggressively attacking some perceived threat.

    Lastly, only the weak run around afraid. The strong don't live in fear. If a person needs a gun to make them feel strong... they're actually weak.
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
    http://soulinblackandwhite.blogspot.com/

  6. #396
    Professor
    Tettsuo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    2,321

    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    History proves how right you are. Those damn South blacks having a right to self defense? Look at what happened after African-Americans were given legal right to protect themselves from the KKK? We need to return to when people don't have a right to stand their ground, particularly against racially oriented harassment and attacks. Like you say, when white folks tell blacks to get out of their neighborhood they better git going!
    Do you believe getting rid of stand your ground also eliminates self-defense laws?
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
    http://soulinblackandwhite.blogspot.com/

  7. #397
    Professor
    Tettsuo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    2,321

    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    We don't know what she was doing when he opened the door.
    We do know she wasn't trying to break in as there were no signs of her trying to do so.
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
    http://soulinblackandwhite.blogspot.com/

  8. #398
    Sage
    Unitedwestand13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Sunnyvale California
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    14,985

    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    History proves how right you are. Those damn South blacks having a right to self defense? Look at what happened after African-Americans were given legal right to protect themselves from the KKK? We need to return to when people don't have a right to stand their ground, particularly against racially oriented harassment and attacks. Like you say, when white folks tell blacks to get out of their neighborhood they better git going!
    heres a idea: instead of calling a self defense law "stand your ground", use the terminology "option of last resort" or "fight or flight"?
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
    Break, By Three days grace

    Hilliary Clinton/Tim Kaine 2016

  9. #399
    Educator
    MichaelJR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Suckachusetts
    Last Seen
    05-25-16 @ 09:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,089

    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    If you can retreat, do so. What you described isn't a situation where retreat is possible, so I don't see what point you're trying to make.

    I'm in no way saying you can't defend yourself. I'm saying stand your ground does not mean going out of your way in such a manner that it turns standing your ground into aggressively attacking some perceived threat.

    Lastly, only the weak run around afraid. The strong don't live in fear. If a person needs a gun to make them feel strong... they're actually weak.
    Why? Best defense is a good offense. If I'm attacked, yeah, I'm going on the offensive.

    As for needing a gun to feel strong? Not sure what you mean there. I need a gun because they have guns. I want to even the playing ground. You can go pound your chest and clinch your fists all you want. They have a knife, and have no intention of dropping it. Personally, I walk around worried about nothing and I sleep soundly at night.

    Marine Corp says: Always cheat; always win. If you walk away, it was a fair fight. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
    I suppose they are weak as well by your logic.
    Last edited by MichaelJR; 11-22-13 at 05:51 PM.

  10. #400
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:41 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,568
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    If the shooter is going to argue self-defense, the Reasonable Persom standard will be applied. Would a Reasonable Person have been so afraid of this tiny, seemingly unarmed girl, standing outside his locked screen door, that the Reasonable Person would shoot through the screen door and kill her?

    In the cold, hard light of dawn, it doesn't seem likely.

    I believe this is a tragic case in which a very frightened man, awakened from sleep in the dark of night, stood there with a shaky finger a little too close to the trigger and he'll be punished for that. Punished and probably wonder the rest of his life what the Hell he did to deserve any of this.

    On the other hand, I don't believe it's going to be too long until we hear a defense lawyer argue that there should be a change in the Reasonable Person standard when it comes to a white person being confronted by a black person.

    Just using this case as an example, it could be argued that the shooter wasn't afraid of the girl standing there at all, rather he was afraid of the two huge, armed black men standing right around the corner of his house waiting for that screen door to be opened. He knew that black idols like Jamie Foxx, Spike Lee and Oprah Winfrey were calling for the deaths of white people, even at the hands of black people. He knew what two blacks did to Shorty, the helpless 90 year old veteran up in a Washington State parking lot and about other similar, well publicized incidents of murder for no reason other than being white. Maybe he knew about the new black sport of knock out punches which have killed white people, the Flash Mobs in Eastern cities, the gang beatings of random white joggers and others.

    It's only a matter of time until some defense lawyer argues that, if this is how black people in America act towards innocent white strangers, how can you apply the same reasonable person standard to someone confronted by a black person as you can to someone confronted by a white person, even if it is a seemingly innocent confrontation, as in this case?
    We wasn't tiny and it wasn't "the light of dawn.' She was someone covered in blood at 3:40 am and we don't know what she did when she opened the door.

Page 40 of 42 FirstFirst ... 303839404142 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •