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Thread: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges[W:287]

  1. #381
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    Stand your ground and all who support it must be defeated whenever and wherever possible.
    Why? Knee-jerk reactions take lives. Think of how many lives this policy saves per year. Weigh it out. It's disproportionately in favor of stand your ground, simply based on FBI crime database numbers. Rapes, assaults, murders...prevented daily at the hand of a gun. Stand your ground protects the innocent gun owner who's defending him/herself from scum. Instead of standing trial and losing their house trying to defend themselves in court for defending themselves, they get to go home to their family.

    Yeah. Great idea. Let's protect thugs rights so we all feel warm and fuzzy, meanwhile they operate without conscious, completely unbound to the law. CRIMINALS DON'T CARE ABOUT WORDS ON PAPER. I'm sorry, but the FEW accidents it may prevent...simply not worth the alternative being the countless rapes, murders, and assaults that will occur without the protection of stand your ground for the innocent. No, this isn't faux news, this is FBI crime database figures. Contestable information? Nope.

  2. #382
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    I actually think that Stand your Ground law isn't "evil" on it's face. You shouldn't HAVE to retreat in your home. I do think it's too broad and allows far too many people to blindly claim stand your ground. It should be narrower in scope and should apply ONLY in a safe location (car or home).

    So what happens if you're a girl, on the street walking back to your car. Approached by three young males who's lives were 'just turning around' (seems to be the typical family response), but on said day decided to rob and beat you. Are you no longer allowed to stand your ground? You're now subject to criminal action for defending yourself. High five man.

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR View Post
    So what happens if you're a girl, on the street walking back to your car. Approached by three young males who's lives were 'just turning around' (seems to be the typical family response), but on said day decided to rob and beat you. Are you no longer allowed to stand your ground? You're now subject to criminal action for defending yourself. High five man.
    Assuming said girl is at least 21, has rented permission from the state to legally carry a gun and desires to keep her possessions and health then she may be able to foil their plans; otherwise her odds are not looking very good.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #384
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Assuming said girl is at least 21, has rented permission from the state to legally carry a gun and desires to keep her possessions and health then she may be able to foil their plans; otherwise her odds are not looking very good.
    And we have a winner!

    Anti-gun folks will chime in soon. They can dial 911, so guys, with GUNS, can come save them, on an average of 23 minutes after the initial call. I'm sure the perps will wait until the police arrive to begin their assault. That is, if they let her get to the phone in the first place.

    Against guns, but will call guys with guns to help them. And they wonder why we think they are devoid of rational thought.

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR View Post
    And we have a winner!

    Anti-gun folks will chime in soon. They can dial 911, so guys, with GUNS, can come save them, on an average of 23 minutes after the initial call. I'm sure the perps will wait until the police arrive to begin their assault. That is, if they let her get to the phone in the first place.

    Against guns, but will call guys with guns to help them. And they wonder why we think they are devoid of rational thought.
    Dialing 911 (soon) is not likely to be an option left to you. Thugs know that cellphones have value, often contain cameras, even some personal information about the victim for later use and will be soon be used by the victim to ask for police assistance. Showing the perps that you have a cellphone is not a good idea.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Dialing 911 (soon) is not likely to be an option left to you. Thugs know that cellphones have value, often contain cameras, even some personal information about the victim for later use and will be soon be used by the victim to ask for police assistance. Showing the perps that you have a cellphone is not a good idea.
    Stop it with that logic! You're making too much sense and scaring the sheep away.

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    If you live somewhere cops are not present or reliable, then having a few guns in the home only makes sense. If you live right next to the police station or in a small community with a police force that will respond in 3 minutes, then a barking dog and cell phone will do ya.

  8. #388
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR View Post
    So what happens if you're a girl, on the street walking back to your car. Approached by three young males who's lives were 'just turning around' (seems to be the typical family response), but on said day decided to rob and beat you. Are you no longer allowed to stand your ground? You're now subject to criminal action for defending yourself. High five man.
    Nothing to do with anything I said.

    Self-defense existed before stand you ground. No one is saying you can't act in self-defense. But, if you're in your car, engine started, and those same three guys banged on your car yelling insults at you, you shouldn't have the right to roll down your window and start shooting them. Drive the **** away if you can!

    Now if they block your car in and you can't leave, by all means, let the massacre begin. You shouldn't have to leave your car and start running to justify your self-defense.
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
    http://soulinblackandwhite.blogspot.com/

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    Nothing to do with anything I said.

    Self-defense existed before stand you ground. No one is saying you can't act in self-defense. But, if you're in your car, engine started, and those same three guys banged on your car yelling insults at you, you shouldn't have the right to roll down your window and start shooting them. Drive the **** away if you can!

    Now if they block your car in and you can't leave, by all means, let the massacre begin. You shouldn't have to leave your car and start running to justify your self-defense.
    Take the car out of the equation. Say, you're a subject of NYC (see what I did there). Now obviously, in NYC, the only people that are allowed to carry guns are cops, celebrities, the connected few, and criminals.

    You're walking down the street, presumably back to your place from friends house, 5 blocks. You have no car. Not unheard of, actually it's the norm there. Same situation happens. You're now confronted with the choice to retreat, potentially being stabbed in the back, tackled, etc....this is a real issue. Obviously, in NYC, guns are a nono, knives are the same deal. NYC is dark, loaded with trash, alleys, dark places. You could be murdered and not found for quite some time. They know this, and they know that if you get a good look at them, your life is far more valuable to them extinguished than able to hit them in a line-up. Tackled from behind, as a female with even just one perp on you, the odds are stacked against you, major. NYPD blue is not there to save the day unless they know what is happening, and even then, let's say response time was 10 minutes....ever been in a fight? I have. Most last between 5 - 20 seconds and result in someone being incapacitated to some degree. An attack is a whole different form of brutality. It's savage, fast, and typically perpetrated by a seasoned criminal not afraid of going that 'extra mile' to make sure they remain free and on the streets. If you've ever been a victim of one, or even seen a video of a mugging/assault/whatever, this is not a square up and go punch for punch street fight. There are no rules, there is no soft landing mat, no gloves. These self defense courses people take assume you see the person coming. They are in front of you. You can grab their right wrist and mr. miogi them into a judo throw. Real life doesn't work like that. In real life, you went to grab his wrist with some unrealistic joe-kwon-dough (clever ey?) move you learned at the YMCA, and took about 6 stabs to the lower abdomen, and one to the arm. Better hope that brachial artery isn't slashed, otherwise things are going to start getting real fuzzy soon. Can't see that phone screen? No kidding slapshot, you're experiencing massive blood loss and your suffering from cerebral hypoxia. You'll pass out soon enough, don't worry, you literally won't remember a thing, ever.

    People look at the world through foggy, naive glasses. There is real evil out there. The law is nothing more than an illusion, a suggestion to promote law and order with the wishful thinking that people will follow it. There is no magical bloomberg bubble, blue lights and ambulances don't show up when it goes down, there will be no backup to help. You'll be another number, a small folder on a detectives desk to add to the pile, your family will be upset, and you'll be extremely dead.

    OR...

    You don't run. You're armed. You have an even playing field and you can defend yourself. These lovely young upstanding members of society that 'were just turning their lives around' have no idea what bees nest they just stepped on. You're no longer dead. You live to see another day, go home to your family, play Parcheesi in peters parlor with patricia and patrick, partaking in the....something that begins with P.

    This is how the world really works. The weak are prey, the strong survive. In a world of wolves, you need teeth (sharp ones ideally). I'm not paranoid, I don't walk around with bugged out eyes with my hand on my gun all sweaty and weirded out, waiting for this theoretical gang of killers to come and rob me for my Tag and shoes. I am however, a realist. I realize that the crime stats in this country (in urban areas primarily) are not exactly stellar. I made a conscious decision to even the playing field by carrying wherever I go. Don't want to get eaten by the wolves? Act/think like one, grow some teeth, you'll at least have a fighting chance....or run/hide/roll up into a ball and please, take your chances, let me know how it goes.

    As for shooting out of the car, highly discourage that. First of all, only 1/12 handgun shootings result in a fatality. You do NOT want this guy bringing up a civil case, or worse, his/her family. You'll spend your kids college fund and an equity loan trying to keep yourself out of jail. More advisable, use that damn car. I'll take 3500+ lbs of metal for mounting a defense any day of the week over a pistol if the car is in drive and ready to rock. Best defense is a good offense. My car fits the bill.
    Last edited by MichaelJR; 11-22-13 at 05:02 PM.

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    Educator BlackAsCoal's Avatar
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR View Post
    Why? Knee-jerk reactions take lives. Think of how many lives this policy saves per year. Weigh it out. It's disproportionately in favor of stand your ground, simply based on FBI crime database numbers. Rapes, assaults, murders...prevented daily at the hand of a gun. Stand your ground protects the innocent gun owner who's defending him/herself from scum. Instead of standing trial and losing their house trying to defend themselves in court for defending themselves, they get to go home to their family.

    Yeah. Great idea. Let's protect thugs rights so we all feel warm and fuzzy, meanwhile they operate without conscious, completely unbound to the law. CRIMINALS DON'T CARE ABOUT WORDS ON PAPER. I'm sorry, but the FEW accidents it may prevent...simply not worth the alternative being the countless rapes, murders, and assaults that will occur without the protection of stand your ground for the innocent. No, this isn't faux news, this is FBI crime database figures. Contestable information? Nope.
    I'm completely lost as to where the right gets its information from.

    'Stand Your Ground' Linked To Increase In Homicides : NPR

    Stand Your Ground states have more homicides, complicated prosecutions

    Homicides soar in states with 'Stand Your Ground' laws

    Stand Your Ground Means More Homicides, | Legal News | Lawyers.com

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