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Thread: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges[W:287]

  1. #371
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    From what I hear about this story, it seems this girl knocked on his door and was shot. That is murder. For this to be anything other than murder he would need a have had a reason to shoot her. Some type of threat would have to be established. Knocking on a door is not a threat. Doesnt matter if you dont know who they are, or the time of day or night. Knocking on a door, even drunken strangers in the middle of the night, is not adequate provocation to shoot someone.
    A screaming, bloody, seemingly crazy person on the other side of a 'screen' door could be very threatening. Whether or not a person would consider that a 'lethal threat' or 'threat to gross bodily harm' is what is going to be examined here. It will be (should be) based on what a 'reasonable' person would think and do and all the details that they find out.
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    A screaming, bloody, seemingly crazy person on the other side of a 'screen' door could be very threatening. Whether or not a person would consider that a 'lethal threat' or 'threat to gross bodily harm' is what is going to be examined here. It will be (should be) based on what a 'reasonable' person would think and do and all the details that they find out.
    If they enter your home I would agree. But someone screaming and acting a fool on your porch would warrant a phone call to the police, and you preparing yourself in case they come in.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    I'm sorry, but does anyone here live in Detroit? If anyone was knocking on my door past 7PM, I'd probably be pretty damn skeptical/scared myself.

    This is how that city celebrates new years.



    Given, it sounds like music to my ears (love me some guns, especially all the FA fire), this place is a warzone on a good day.

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Wrong about what? Nothing in any statute that I am aware of says it is ok to shoot people in the face for knocking on your door.
    Since I am on my phone, please excise my para phrasing. But, I believe it reads something like, 'if the person is within their own dwelling, and perceives threat to self, or others within, then force is justified.'

    Now, it can certainly be your opinion that he didn't face a threat, or that he shouldn't have shot her, but that is, without being there at the moment, and or, knowing all the facts, merely speculation and opinion. The burden of proof is on the state.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    If they enter your home I would agree. But someone screaming and acting a fool on your porch would warrant a phone call to the police, and you preparing yourself in case they come in.
    "Property" is the key here.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Since I am on my phone, please excise my para phrasing. But, I believe it reads something like, 'if the person is within their own dwelling, and perceives threat to self, or others within, then force is justified.'

    Now, it can certainly be your opinion that he didn't face a threat, or that he shouldn't have shot her, but that is, without being there at the moment, and or, knowing all the facts, merely speculation and opinion. The burden of proof is on the state.
    SELF-DEFENSE ACT (EXCERPT)
    Act 309 of 2006


    780.972 Use of deadly force by individual not engaged in commission of crime; conditions.
    Sec. 2.

    (1) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses deadly force may use deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if either of the following applies:

    (a) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent death of or imminent great bodily harm to himself or herself or to another individual.

    (b) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent sexual assault of himself or herself or of another individual.

    (2) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses force other than deadly force may use force other than deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if he or she honestly and reasonably believes that the use of that force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by another individual.



    There is no statute, prescedent or anything that would justify shooting someone in the face for banging on a door. You are not in danger from someone on another side of a door.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Thank you Kreton!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    SELF-DEFENSE ACT (EXCERPT)
    Act 309 of 2006

    780.972 Use of deadly force by individual not engaged in commission of crime; conditions.
    Sec. 2.

    (1) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses deadly force may use deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if either of the following applies:

    (a) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent death of or imminent great bodily harm to himself or herself or to another individual.

    (b) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent sexual assault of himself or herself or of another individual.

    (2) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses force other than deadly force may use force other than deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if he or she honestly and reasonably believes that the use of that force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by another individual.

    There is no statute, prescedent or anything that would justify shooting someone in the face for banging on a door. You are not in danger from someone on another side of a door.
    For this particular case, how reasonable the action was will become a huge sticking point for this man defense.
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
    http://soulinblackandwhite.blogspot.com/

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    If the shooter is going to argue self-defense, the Reasonable Persom standard will be applied. Would a Reasonable Person have been so afraid of this tiny, seemingly unarmed girl, standing outside his locked screen door, that the Reasonable Person would shoot through the screen door and kill her?

    In the cold, hard light of dawn, it doesn't seem likely.

    I believe this is a tragic case in which a very frightened man, awakened from sleep in the dark of night, stood there with a shaky finger a little too close to the trigger and he'll be punished for that. Punished and probably wonder the rest of his life what the Hell he did to deserve any of this.

    On the other hand, I don't believe it's going to be too long until we hear a defense lawyer argue that there should be a change in the Reasonable Person standard when it comes to a white person being confronted by a black person.

    Just using this case as an example, it could be argued that the shooter wasn't afraid of the girl standing there at all, rather he was afraid of the two huge, armed black men standing right around the corner of his house waiting for that screen door to be opened. He knew that black idols like Jamie Foxx, Spike Lee and Oprah Winfrey were calling for the deaths of white people, even at the hands of black people. He knew what two blacks did to Shorty, the helpless 90 year old veteran up in a Washington State parking lot and about other similar, well publicized incidents of murder for no reason other than being white. Maybe he knew about the new black sport of knock out punches which have killed white people, the Flash Mobs in Eastern cities, the gang beatings of random white joggers and others.

    It's only a matter of time until some defense lawyer argues that, if this is how black people in America act towards innocent white strangers, how can you apply the same reasonable person standard to someone confronted by a black person as you can to someone confronted by a white person, even if it is a seemingly innocent confrontation, as in this case?
    Last edited by Ray410; 11-22-13 at 02:31 PM.

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    That other humans could justify shooting an unarmed WOMAN in the face through a screen door is nothing short of evil.

    Stand your ground and all who support it must be defeated whenever and wherever possible.

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    That other humans could justify shooting an unarmed WOMAN in the face through a screen door is nothing short of evil.

    Stand your ground and all who support it must be defeated whenever and wherever possible.
    I actually think that Stand your Ground law isn't "evil" on it's face. You shouldn't HAVE to retreat in your home. I do think it's too broad and allows far too many people to blindly claim stand your ground. It should be narrower in scope and should apply ONLY in a safe location (car or home).
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
    http://soulinblackandwhite.blogspot.com/

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