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Thread: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges[W:287]

  1. #351
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    all meaningless with out further evidence
    the belief has to be reasonable
    Reasonable yes, but that is not for us to decide. That is for the prosecutor to prove that his belief of threat was 'unreasonable'

    banging could also mean they were simply trying to wake sleeping person lol
    there is nothing factually about banging that relates to waiting in or breaking in, that is all speculation and without further evidence rendered completely meaningless
    That's your opinion, and you are not the arbiter.

    banging is absolutely meaningless without further evidence, dents in the door, evidence of attempted forced entry etc which there were none
    The level of noise caused by the banging would be hard to prove through anything other than the homeowners testimony. Are you saying that unless the young woman tried to force the door open, or dented it somehow, that the banging wasn't loud within the dwelling? Because that would also be nothing but your own opinion.

    also its either a dark neighborhood and he couldn't see or he could see so well he knew what she looked like and could GUESS at her state of mind it cant be both, just saying. Not implying you said its both just pointing out those would totally contradict eachother in a trial.
    Again your opinion. It absolutely can be dark enough to not see clearly. In any case this is for the prosecutor to prove....The burden is on her.

    then theres his statement of it was an accident, its a factor
    the major factor that probably makes some type of conviction almost a lock is shooting through a locked door, thats going to be huge
    It will be interesting to see how this plays out....Just remember, the homeowner is innocent until proven guilty....Let me repeat....Innocent until proven guilty.

    the fact remains without further evidence, his thoughts will have zero support in logic, facts and reality
    No, I have already shown you the statute where his hurdle is rather low in that regard....The burden of proof is on the prosecution.

    there isnt credence without factual or rational evidence
    Your opinion.

    if there was evidence of forced or attempted forced entry then yes, without it, nope.
    We shall see. But this is still your opinion.

    as for your question for Murder 2

    IMO its too much and Im guessing its being used to deal and nothign more thats why the multiple charges and not a single charge
    I agree, unless we hear more about his intent, then Murder 2 is out the window.

    Manslaughter seems like a lock with all the facts we currently know
    Your opinion.

    his mind isnt any hurdle at all it has to be reasonable and there has to be evidence to support it, it always has to be reasonable with support from evidence and reality.

    Your opinion..

    Now, there seems to be a lot in your post here that points to you touting yourself as some kind of final authority or something. Also, you seem to be approaching it as though the homeowner has to prove himself innocent...That's backwards. The burden of proof is on the state here. You should bear that in mind, especially with the Zimmerman trial so fresh and so many, (including you I believe) were so sure, and smug about it that Z was guilty, yet a jury acquitted him of charges there...So, I wouldn't be so quick to be spouting off as though you know something everyone else doesn't....

    Now, I don't know if the man will be found guilty of any, or all of the charges, or innocent of them, but let's at least approach this like it should be, and that is innocent until proven guilty...That shouldn't be controversial....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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  2. #352
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    We do not know if the screen door was locked or even if she was opening it and coming right into his face when he opened the door - finding a bloody crazied person coming at you at 3.40 am is a life threatening situation. This video of another thread shows just how fast a person can be knocked down and out - and if in your home alone you then easily killed thereafter:
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/law-an...imply-fun.html

    At this point, the most critical evidence we do not know is 1.) was the screen door unlocked? 2.) does he say she was opening the screen door?, 3.) was she beating on the screen door or the inner door and 4.) is her dna and/or prints on the screen door and/or inner door handle?

    If his statement is that she was opening the screen door and this not contradicted by evidence, he has a very good chance of a not guilty verdict.

    Good post, and I would have to say that we are doing a lot of speculating at this point....We shall see though, that's for sure...Just remember, as I know you know, and as I am trying to tell J, the burden of proof is on the state, and jury's are unpredictable...In most cases I would say that they are loathed to throw the book at a homeowner that was startled in the middle of the night, but a person that was drunk, high, and was already acting irrationally (leaving the scene of an accident)...But we will have to see.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    IMO we do. There's no evidence of attempted force entry and the screen door was locked. The man was in no danger at all.
    What matters...and must be proven...is if he BELIEVED he was in danger. A screen door is no protection from anything. Even a drunken crazed women can get thru it. He had no idea if she was armed, why she was acting crazy, why she chose his porch, what her intent was. Have you ever been awoken in the middle of the night by a possible intruder in your home? It's scary and disorienting and you are focused on protecting yourself. Real survival is at all costs....that is the way the mind often works.

    Do we even know if he had a porch light or other light on to see the threat better? I mean, imagine that in the dark.
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    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #354
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Manslaughter, yes, but murder? I just don't see it. Murder has to involve malice, and I don't see malice here. I do see manslaugher, but murder charges are ridiculous. What does everybody else think?

    Article is here.
    What are they not telling us? What was she really acting like?

    Not enough real information to make a decision one way or the other.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Still batting zero huh?
    You say no facts provided. Why you continue being dishonest is beyond me.
    Fact - He heard banging.
    Fact - He believed someone was trying to break-in. His belief is supported by the banging he heard.
    Those are claims, not facts. We only have his word.

    His defense will need to either convince the jury he is not lying, or point out evidence that supports his claim.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Sporadic insanity normal.


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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    You clearly have failed.
    Facts have already been given.
    Nor do you have any idea of how the legal system works.
    His statements are facts.
    Statements are not facts.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    What matters...and must be proven...is if he BELIEVED he was in danger. A screen door is no protection from anything. Even a drunken crazed women can get thru it. He had no idea if she was armed, why she was acting crazy, why she chose his porch, what her intent was. Have you ever been awoken in the middle of the night by a possible intruder in your home? It's scary and disorienting and you are focused on protecting yourself. Real survival is at all costs....that is the way the mind often works.

    Do we even know if he had a porch light or other light on to see the threat better? I mean, imagine that in the dark.
    All he has to do is state that he reasonably felt in danger, the state then has the burden.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Statements are not facts.
    So Excon sent me a PM in response to this (I think). However he is not accepting PM's, so...

    My response to his PM (which I am not posting):

    I personally view facts as something which has been proven true beyond reasonable doubt.
    I view statements someone makes as claims/statements/opinions. These can be recorded and used as evidence, but what they truly mean is dependent on context, intent, and opinion of listener (to varying degrees). Thus I do not consider them worth as much as facts.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    All he has to do is state that he reasonably felt in danger, the state then has the burden.
    It's not quite that simple....when the state starts to introduce that he shot thru a door, she was an 'innocent car accident victim', she had no visible weapons, etc etc etc.

    I don't know what the state will introduce and I don't know if any of those things are true...but that doesn't even matter on some points...'innocent car victim' is subjective but plays very well with some juries, if it gets to a jury. Not to mention that guilty or not....he may have to pay ALL his own court and lawyer costs. Depends on the state.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    So Excon sent me a PM in response to this (I think). However he is not accepting PM's, so...
    Wait a minute!!

    You're saying the Excon sends PM's but doesn't accept them?

    That's pretty cowardly

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