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Thread: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges[W:287]

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Michigan law states:

    PA 311 provides a “rebuttable presumption” in a civil or criminal case that a person who defends himself believes that criminal attack is threatened if (1) he is in a dwelling or business, or (2) the criminal is attempting to remove someone from a dwelling, business, or vehicle. This does not apply if the alleged criminal has a legal right to be in the dwelling or business, or if the person defending himself is committing a crime, or if the person entering is a law enforcement officer in the course of his duties.

    Read more: Michigan's Castle Doctrine & No-Retreat Legislation Review
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    Ok, so here is where under MI law the homeowner has the right to defend himself, and the standard he has to overcome is, 1. he is in a dwelling, and 2. if he believes he is threatened.

    This is where the difference between "knock" and "bang" comes in. IMHO, and that of the people I asked last night among our group of friends down at the sport bar for MNF.....The consensus was that a "knock" is different from a "bang" however, neither constitute "forced entry", but under MI law, they don't have to. Under the scenario given, 4:30 am, dark, neighborhood involved, as well as state of mind of the girl, and appearance, this scenario is not out of the question considering an armed household.

    Now functionally, as a matter of legal terminology, I am not a lawyer, so I don't know, but it would seem that the prosecutor in this case has a job to get an indictment, if the state feels they can bring a case. In order to do that the words used to describe the events of the time in question will definitely be questioned at any trial in front of a jury, with a demonstration as to the difference between a "knock", and "banging"... As one person last night put it with no prompting, "A knock would mean someone was at the door, banging means they want in.." I thought that was pretty good at establishing what the average person perceives as a knock v. bang...

    Further, it is a relatively small point in the overall charge v. conviction on the charges...So I am not going to spend page after page arguing that infantesable point, but rather move on to can "Murder 2" be won, or is this the typical prosecutor overcharge in hopes that lessor charges stick? I tell ya, the more I read of the story, and knowing now MI law that I posted above, I don't even know if Manslaughter can stick if this guy has good representation, and events went down like he says they did....Keep in mind, the hurdle is what was in his mind at the time of the event, and only he knows this....So, carry on all....
    We do not know if the screen door was locked or even if she was opening it and coming right into his face when he opened the door - finding a bloody crazied person coming at you at 3.40 am is a life threatening situation. This video of another thread shows just how fast a person can be knocked down and out - and if in your home alone you then easily killed thereafter:
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/law-an...imply-fun.html

    At this point, the most critical evidence we do not know is 1.) was the screen door unlocked? 2.) does he say she was opening the screen door?, 3.) was she beating on the screen door or the inner door and 4.) is her dna and/or prints on the screen door and/or inner door handle?

    If his statement is that she was opening the screen door and this not contradicted by evidence, he has a very good chance of a not guilty verdict.

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    100% agree. Murder 2 is something the prosecutor to strive for, but manslaughter is definitely a given.
    No it's not a "given." We do not have enough facts to know that.

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Again folks, don't let the other poster confuse you.
    The banging goes directly to his thoughts that someone was trying to break in.

    That is inescapable.

    We don't know that she wasn't.

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Again folks, don't let the other poster confuse you.
    The banging goes directly to his thoughts that someone was trying to break in.

    That is inescapable.
    100% factually false
    facts still prove you wrong and no matter how many times the false post is repeated nobody honest and educated buys it


    without further evidence, his thoughts will have zero support in logic, facts and reality

    there isnt credence without factual or rational evidence, this is basic 101 stuff
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    No it's not a "given." We do not have enough facts to know that.
    IMO we do. There's no evidence of attempted force entry and the screen door was locked. The man was in no danger at all.
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    We do not know if the screen door was locked or even if she was opening it and coming right into his face when he opened the door - finding a bloody crazied person coming at you at 3.40 am is a life threatening situation. This video of another thread shows just how fast a person can be knocked down and out - and if in your home alone you then easily killed thereafter:
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/law-an...imply-fun.html

    At this point, the most critical evidence we do not know is 1.) was the screen door unlocked? 2.) does he say she was opening the screen door?, 3.) was she beating on the screen door or the inner door and 4.) is her dna and/or prints on the screen door and/or inner door handle?

    If his statement is that she was opening the screen door and this not contradicted by evidence, he has a very good chance of a not guilty verdict.
    false we do know the screen door was locked


    these are the known facts

    FACT LIST
    additions made to make everyone happy



    car wreck a little before 1
    -cell phone was dead
    -911 was called to report accident by passer by/ neighbor
    -People stopped to help driver
    -driver is a 19yr old woman 5'4"
    -driver was disoriented and bloody
    -driver left scene
    -driver returned to scene, 911 was called again to report this about 1:25
    -cops and EMS show up to seen about 1:42, driver is gone
    -driver left scene
    -County prosecutor statement says driver knocked on locked screen door about a mile away and there is no evidence of forced entry
    -home owner opened interior door
    -home owner is 54yr old man, over 6ft and 200lbs
    -driver was shot in the face through locked screen door
    -911 was called to report shooting by home owner, home owner claims the following:
    "Uh yes... I just shot somebody on my front porch with a shotgun, banging on my door." Wafer gives his address (we deleted the address in our post) and ends the call by saying "thank you" and hanging up, even as ---police dispatch continued.
    -911 dispatched police
    -911 called homeowner back and he confirmed he shot someone he didnt know on his porch
    -police arrive find driver on porch with large hole in face



    autopsy confirms homicide and shot in face at a distance
    toxicology reveals drinking and weed in driver


    Murder 2 charges have been filed along with man slaughter and possession of a firearm during the attempted commission of a felony or commission of a felony.

    anything else feel free to add with links

    also any further audio of the 911 claims please post the official audio or transcript and ill gladly add them

    more specifically the call back


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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    100% factually false
    facts still prove you wrong and no matter how many times the false post is repeated nobody honest and educated buys it


    without further evidence, his thoughts will have zero support in logic, facts and reality

    there isnt credence without factual or rational evidence, this is basic 101 stuff
    No they don't. The "FACTS" for that question have not been published as far as I know.

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    IMO we do. There's no evidence of attempted force entry and the screen door was locked. The man was in no danger at all.
    Do you have a link to the screen door being locked? I have not seen that.

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    No they don't.
    The "FACTS" for that question have not been published as far as I know.
    you seem to have quoted the wrong post because nothing you said makes any sense
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Do you have a link to the screen door being locked? I have not seen that.
    in been posted in this thread many by muiltiple sources, hell didnt you post it once?
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