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Thread: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges[W:287]

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    I understand that.
    I was just emphasizing that what a defendant says can be evidence.

    But he really doesn't have to convince.
    He can and will present it in the best light, but the prosecution is the one who has to prove their case.
    Not the other way around.
    Even in cases off an affirmative defense, the Prosecution still has to prove it's case.
    Well of course.

    But, obviously, the prosecution will try to say he is lying. Or it seems likely
    Education.

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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    That's what she said?

    Sorry...

    But I understand your point. Thing is, if we're talking a trial here, the lawyer would still have to convince the jury that his client was telling the truth when he described the situation.

    If he takes a plea, OTOH....well, we shall see...
    Contrary from what you may have been told by another, the banging establishes and gives credence to his thoughts that someone was trying to break in.
    But in all reality, with what we know and if he was actually pointing or aiming, it doesn't matter as he has already established it as Manslaughter by saying the discharge was accidental.
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Well of course.

    But, obviously, the prosecution will try to say he is lying. Or it seems likely
    Not saying they can't, but they would have to prove he was by the evidence.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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  4. #294
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    1.)Contrary from what you may have been told by another, the banging establishes and gives credence to his thoughts that someone was trying to break in.
    But in all reality, with what we know and if he was actually pointing or aiming, it doesn't matter as he has already established it as Manslaughter by saying the discharge was accidental.
    1.) factually not true without further evidence, his thoughts will have zero support in logic, facts, reality or evidence

    there is credence without factual or rational evidence

    if there was evidence of forced or attempted forced entry then yes, without it, nope.
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    An again folks, don't let the other poster confuse you.
    The banging establishes and gives credence to his thoughts that someone was trying to break in.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    An again folks, don't let the other poster confuse you.
    The banging establishes and gives credence to his thoughts that someone was trying to break in.
    100% factually false

    without further evidence, his thoughts will have zero support in logic, facts and reality

    there isnt credence without factual or rational evidence

    if there was evidence of forced or attempted forced entry then yes, without it, nope.

    if you have ANYTHING that counters this please please present it

    that failed logic is failed its like saying, hey that guy was looking at me funny so that gives credence to my thoughts he was going to kill me

    nope, reality and legal situations simply factually need more
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Michigan law states:

    PA 311 provides a “rebuttable presumption” in a civil or criminal case that a person who defends himself believes that criminal attack is threatened if (1) he is in a dwelling or business, or (2) the criminal is attempting to remove someone from a dwelling, business, or vehicle. This does not apply if the alleged criminal has a legal right to be in the dwelling or business, or if the person defending himself is committing a crime, or if the person entering is a law enforcement officer in the course of his duties.

    Read more: Michigan's Castle Doctrine & No-Retreat Legislation Review
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    Ok, so here is where under MI law the homeowner has the right to defend himself, and the standard he has to overcome is, 1. he is in a dwelling, and 2. if he believes he is threatened.

    This is where the difference between "knock" and "bang" comes in. IMHO, and that of the people I asked last night among our group of friends down at the sport bar for MNF.....The consensus was that a "knock" is different from a "bang" however, neither constitute "forced entry", but under MI law, they don't have to. Under the scenario given, 4:30 am, dark, neighborhood involved, as well as state of mind of the girl, and appearance, this scenario is not out of the question considering an armed household.

    Now functionally, as a matter of legal terminology, I am not a lawyer, so I don't know, but it would seem that the prosecutor in this case has a job to get an indictment, if the state feels they can bring a case. In order to do that the words used to describe the events of the time in question will definitely be questioned at any trial in front of a jury, with a demonstration as to the difference between a "knock", and "banging"... As one person last night put it with no prompting, "A knock would mean someone was at the door, banging means they want in.." I thought that was pretty good at establishing what the average person perceives as a knock v. bang...

    Further, it is a relatively small point in the overall charge v. conviction on the charges...So I am not going to spend page after page arguing that infantesable point, but rather move on to can "Murder 2" be won, or is this the typical prosecutor overcharge in hopes that lessor charges stick? I tell ya, the more I read of the story, and knowing now MI law that I posted above, I don't even know if Manslaughter can stick if this guy has good representation, and events went down like he says they did....Keep in mind, the hurdle is what was in his mind at the time of the event, and only he knows this....So, carry on all....
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Michigan law states:

    PA 311 provides a “rebuttable presumption” in a civil or criminal case that a person who defends himself believes that criminal attack is threatened if (1) he is in a dwelling or business, or (2) the criminal is attempting to remove someone from a dwelling, business, or vehicle. This does not apply if the alleged criminal has a legal right to be in the dwelling or business, or if the person defending himself is committing a crime, or if the person entering is a law enforcement officer in the course of his duties.

    Read more: Michigan's Castle Doctrine & No-Retreat Legislation Review
    Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
    Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

    Ok, so here is where under MI law the homeowner has the right to defend himself, and the standard he has to overcome is, 1. he is in a dwelling, and 2. if he believes he is threatened.

    This is where the difference between "knock" and "bang" comes in. IMHO, and that of the people I asked last night among our group of friends down at the sport bar for MNF.....The consensus was that a "knock" is different from a "bang" however, neither constitute "forced entry", but under MI law, they don't have to. Under the scenario given, 4:30 am, dark, neighborhood involved, as well as state of mind of the girl, and appearance, this scenario is not out of the question considering an armed household.

    Now functionally, as a matter of legal terminology, I am not a lawyer, so I don't know, but it would seem that the prosecutor in this case has a job to get an indictment, if the state feels they can bring a case. In order to do that the words used to describe the events of the time in question will definitely be questioned at any trial in front of a jury, with a demonstration as to the difference between a "knock", and "banging"... As one person last night put it with no prompting, "A knock would mean someone was at the door, banging means they want in.." I thought that was pretty good at establishing what the average person perceives as a knock v. bang...

    Further, it is a relatively small point in the overall charge v. conviction on the charges...So I am not going to spend page after page arguing that infantesable point, but rather move on to can "Murder 2" be won, or is this the typical prosecutor overcharge in hopes that lessor charges stick? I tell ya, the more I read of the story, and knowing now MI law that I posted above, I don't even know if Manslaughter can stick if this guy has good representation, and events went down like he says they did....Keep in mind, the hurdle is what was in his mind at the time of the event, and only he knows this....So, carry on all....
    all meaningless with out further evidence
    the belief has to be reasonable

    banging could also mean they were simply trying to wake sleeping person lol
    there is nothing factually about banging that relates to waiting in or breaking in, that is all speculation and without further evidence rendered completely meaningless

    banging is absolutely meaningless without further evidence, dents in the door, evidence of attempted forced entry etc which there were none

    also its either a dark neighborhood and he couldn't see or he could see so well he knew what she looked like and could GUESS at her state of mind it cant be both, just saying. Not implying you said its both just pointing out those would totally contradict eachother in a trial.

    then theres his statement of it was an accident, its a factor
    the major factor that probably makes some type of conviction almost a lock is shooting through a locked door, thats going to be huge

    the fact remains without further evidence, his thoughts will have zero support in logic, facts and reality

    there isnt credence without factual or rational evidence

    if there was evidence of forced or attempted forced entry then yes, without it, nope.

    as for your question for Murder 2

    IMO its too much and Im guessing its being used to deal and nothign more thats why the multiple charges and not a single charge

    Manslaughter seems like a lock with all the facts we currently know

    his mind isnt any hurdle at all it has to be reasonable and there has to be evidence to support it, it always has to be reasonable with support from evidence and reality.
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    Manslaughter seems like a lock with all the facts we currently know.
    100% agree. Murder 2 is something the prosecutor to strive for, but manslaughter is definitely a given.
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
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    Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

    Again folks, don't let the other poster confuse you.
    The banging goes directly to his thoughts that someone was trying to break in.

    That is inescapable.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

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