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Republicans mount shock comeback, erase Democrats’ edge in eyes of Americans

Green Man said:
The Mark answered my question, so I'm good now. Thanks.
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Actually he only covered one tiny part of it. And this is NOT about who controls the rules. If you try to make it about that and ONLY THAT you are engaging in blatant intellectual fraud of the worst sort.

So tell us how one can live in the USA without enjoying a single benefit of living here.

Lets here it.
 
haymarket said:
Explain how one lives in the USA and does not enjoy even a single benefit of that residence.

This goes much much deeper than any mere control of rules.

But tell us how you would still reside in the USA and not enjoy one benefit of doing so. This should be interesting.
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*strokes nonexistent beard*

Well, in theory, if you lived way out in a wilderness, in some dwelling which you furnished/built yourself, grew/hunted your own food, and had no contact with the outside world...

Yeah....unlikely.

Edit: And besides which, you would still enjoy the benefits of the military protection of the entire country...
 
The Mark said:
*strokes nonexistent beard*

Well, in theory, if you lived way out in a wilderness, in some dwelling which you furnished/built yourself, grew/hunted your own food, and had no contact with the outside world...

Yeah....unlikely.

Edit: And besides which, you would still enjoy the benefits of the military protection of the entire country...
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Exactly. It would be impossible to live here without enjoying a single benefit of being a resident of the USA.
 
haymarket said:
Actually he only covered one tiny part of it. And this is NOT about who controls the rules. If you try to make it about that and ONLY THAT you are engaging in blatant intellectual fraud of the worst sort.

So tell us how one can live in the USA without enjoying a single benefit of living here.

Lets here it.
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I suppose it depends on to which benefits you were referring when you said this:

haymarket said:
When one enters a voluntary association like living in a nation of their choice, they accept all the benefits and all the responsibilities and duties that the nation offers and demands. If you do not like that, you are free to go elsewhere.
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I took it to mean benefits provided by the government, which is what I was suggesting that a person might forego. I think it might be possible for a person to not accept anything from the government.
 
Conservative said:
Tell me exactly what the GOP prevented from happening that caused what we had in 2009-2011? You buy what you are told and ignore actual reality. Your opinion is nothing more than an opinion based upon ignorance. I want to see what austerity programs prevented 2-3 million jobs from being created? Did those shovels ever arrive for those shovel ready jobs?
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No you're being obtuse. Cutting spending, shutting down the government, holding the debt ceiling hostage...all those things are nub killers. Quit playing dumb.
 
Green Man said:
I suppose it depends on to which benefits you were referring when you said this:



I took it to mean benefits provided by the government, which is what I was suggesting that a person might forego. I think it might be possible for a person to not accept anything from the government.
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And it has already been pointed out to you that it is not because you would enjoy the protection of the American governments military.
 
haymarket said:
And it has already been pointed out to you that it is not because you would enjoy the protection of the American governments military.
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Earlier you used the word "accept", but now you are using the word "enjoy". There are different implications two the two different words.

But the point is moot anyway, due to The Mark's answer. The government claims the right to control over the territory and all people in it. So as long as you are in their territory, the government will not allow you to opt out of the voluntary association.
 
calamity said:
No you're being obtuse. Cutting spending, shutting down the government, holding the debt ceiling hostage...all those things are nub killers. Quit playing dumb.
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Who does a 17.1 trillion dollar debt benefit? You have no idea what the four components are of GDP and what percentage they contribute. "Your" President has put Bush spending on steroids and we have 3 million fewer people working today than when the recession began yet you want to blame Republicans? How typical. By the way, how much debt is acceptable to you since obviously exceeding our annual GDP isn't the number?
 
Green Man said:
Earlier you used the word "accept", but now you are using the word "enjoy". There are different implications two the two different words..
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Yeah like six and half a dozen and two times three or half of twelve or eight minus two. :doh:roll:

But the point is moot anyway, due to The Mark's answer. The government claims the right to control over the territory and all people in it. So as long as you are in their territory, the government will not allow you to opt out of the voluntary association.
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Baloney the point is moot. There is much more to this that just the tiny slice that you accept because it fits into your belief system. So stop with the intellectual fraud of only accepting the answer that pleases you. the Mark pointed out to you that your fantasy was BS no matter what the government rules are since you would be benefitting from military government protection.

So you fail.
 
haymarket said:
Yeah like six and half a dozen and two times three or half of twelve or eight minus two. :doh:roll:



Baloney the point is moot. There is much more to this that just the tiny slice that you accept because it fits into your belief system. So stop with the intellectual fraud of only accepting the answer that pleases you. the Mark pointed out to you that your fantasy was BS no matter what the government rules are since you would be benefitting from military government protection.

So you fail.
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Well, The Mark does have a good point. A person in the middle of the country would indeed be benefiting from military protection. I wonder what would happen if a person bought some land on the border and then said, "okay, I'm leaving the association, and you don't need to defend my territory if you don't want to. Just defend your territory." Do you think the voluntary association would allow that?
 
The Mark said:
Because the association controls a physical area in which they apply their rules.
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Right. "They" apply "their" rules and under those circumstance no man can remain free. You appear to be a party to this protection racket.
 
Green Man said:
Well, The Mark does have a good point. A person in the middle of the country would indeed be benefiting from military protection. I wonder what would happen if a person bought some land on the border and then said, "okay, I'm leaving the association, and you don't need to defend my territory if you don't want to. Just defend your territory." Do you think the voluntary association would allow that?
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As long as you are the hell out of the country - you are out of the country just like I have been saying all day long. But don't take my word for it - You would have to check with the angels guarding that section of fantasyland to see if they approve.
 
haymarket said:
As long as you are the hell out of the country - you are out of the country just like I have been saying all day long. But don't take my word for it - You would have to check with the angels guarding that section of fantasyland to see if they approve.
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I'm not talking about leaving. Let's say there was a person living somewhere on border, inside the border. Say, for example, on the coast of Maine. Let's say that he said, "Okay, I'd like to leave this voluntary association of ours, and I understand I'm giving up the benefits that I had under the association. And I don't expect the military to protect me and my land. Just defend your land, but you don't have to defend mine."

This person then truly might be giving up all the previous benefits that were associated with his previous membership in the voluntary organization.
 
haymarket said:
Exactly. It would be impossible to live here without enjoying a single benefit of being a resident of the USA.
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But as a free person these can 'benefits' you never applied for or wanted. And they are also breaking the nation.

Did the Constitution ever clam that DC should be supplying 'benefits' such as food stamps, or funding cowboy poetry concerts?? It seems their role was made quite clear from the outset.
 
Green Man said:
I took it to mean benefits provided by the government, which is what I was suggesting that a person might forego. I think it might be possible for a person to not accept anything from the government.
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Given that people did very well for many decades before these programs came into being its clear that people could live without them.
 
Grant said:
Right. "They" apply "their" rules and under those circumstance no man can remain free. You appear to be a party to this protection racket.
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Yep.

We all are.

Even criminals. Sure, they break laws, but they still are protected from being killed in various hideous ways as punishment. A benefit of living in USA.
 
The Mark said:
Yep.

We all are.

Even criminals. Sure, they break laws, but they still are protected from being killed in various hideous ways as punishment. A benefit of living in USA.
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Yes, in he other democracies criminals can kill whomever howsoever they choose. What a great country!
 
Grant said:
But as a free person these can 'benefits' you never applied for or wanted. And they are also breaking the nation.

Did the Constitution ever clam that DC should be supplying 'benefits' such as food stamps, or funding cowboy poetry concerts?? It seems their role was made quite clear from the outset.
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That is not the way any nation works.

And we have a US Supreme COurt to decide issues of constitutionality and they have done so.
 
Grant said:
Yes, in he other democracies criminals can kill whomever howsoever they choose. What a great country!
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Did I say that?

No.

I didn't.
 
haymarket said:
That is not the way any nation works.

And we have a US Supreme COurt to decide issues of constitutionality and they have done so.
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The Supreme Court has chiseled away at State Rights for decades and I believe that's a bad thing for the country. The strain is already beginning to show.
 
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