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Republicans mount shock comeback, erase Democrats’ edge in eyes of Americans

Conservative said:
I have no problem with the spending cuts but you don't grow your way out of this massive debt by increasing taxes at all. What you do is force every American that earns income to pay something in net Federal Income taxes. Less than 50% of the people earning income now have a net income tax payment to the Federal Govt. Increasing taxes on those who pay taxes now isn't the answer, growth is
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My programs mandates that ALL people who earn money pay Federal income tax.
 
haymarket said:
All government spending contributes to the deficit. To single one area or one program out is intellectually dishonest.
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How so? Of course all government spending increases the deficit but programs and areas of spending must be cut or eliminated in order to get back to some fiscal order.. There is nothing dishonest in that.
 
haymarket said:
You have no case to rest as you failed to quote any position I have ever taken.

Your personal crusade is getting a bit sad to watch unfold.
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I was responding to your claim. If you don't want your claims debated, don't make them.
 
haymarket said:
My programs mandates that ALL people who earn money pay Federal income tax.
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You advocated raising the taxes 5% on all brackets. I don't support a raise in taxes on anyone already paying taxes. There is more than enough revenue available today to fund a reasonable Federal Govt. and pay down the debt.
 
haymarket said:
I would do several things:

1- cut at least $500 billion from the current spending including some military spending, some foreign spending, some welfare spending, and other areas.
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We have this, it's called sequester, and demo's are screaming like stuck pigs over it.

2- raise the income taxes of ALL earners a full five points across all tax brackets
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More taxes? Shocking! Good grief, Between Federal, State, Local, Federal programs like FICA, and Med taxes, Sales, and hidden taxes, I pay north of 45% of the income I already make, which is just over $50K....Isn't that enough?

3- tax ALL money coming into a persons pocket or accounts using the regular income tax schedule
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I earned that money, it isn't yours.

4- mandate that a certain portion of this amount be used to reduce the deficit annually
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Yeah, good luck with that one...We currently have a charlatan in office now who ran on his predecessor debt being "unpatriotic" then he came in and doubled it, doubled the deficit, then reduced it by 20% and calls that a success.
 
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haymarket said:
All government spending contributes to the deficit. To single one area or one program out is intellectually dishonest.
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What? I have to support ALL federal programs or I have to support NO federal programs?

I'll decide to support what I think are effective and ethical government programs. The federal government robbing Peter to pay Paul is neither effective nor ethical.

I'll single out and criticize whatever programs I choose.
 
ecofarm said:
I was responding to your claim. If you don't want your claims debated, don't make them.
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That is the point you should take to heart. If you want to dispute anything I said simply provide evidence of the positions you claim I have taken. Your total and complete failure to do that is simply a personal attack shooting from the hip without anything behind it but your own vitriol.
 
Green Man said:
What? I have to support ALL federal programs or I have to support NO federal programs?

I'll decide to support what I think are effective and ethical government programs. The federal government robbing Peter to pay Paul is neither effective nor ethical.

I'll single out and criticize whatever programs I choose.
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Of course you will. And that is your right. But ALL spending the government does contributes to the deficit and that is simply a fact of reality. To single out one program and pretend that it is responsible for the deficit is not either TRUE nor is it intellectually honest.
 
haymarket said:
That is the point you should take to heart. If you want to dispute anything I said simply provide evidence of the positions you claim I have taken.
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I did that. I believe that I've discredited your claim that was supposed to support your position.

Your total and complete failure to do that is simply a personal attack shooting from the hip without anything behind it but your own vitriol.
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Irrelevant. I disproved your claim.

Make your argument without BS claims.
 
j-mac said:
We have this, it's called sequester, and demo's are screaming like stuck pigs over it.



More taxes? Shocking! Good grief, Between Federal, State, Local, Federal programs like FICA, and Med taxes, Sales, and hidden taxes, I pay north of 45% of the income I already make, which is just over $50K....Isn't that enough?



I earned that money, it isn't yours.



Yeah, good luck with that one...We currently have a charlatan in office now who ran on his predecessor debt being "unpatriotic" then he came in and doubled it, doubled the deficit, then reduced it by 20% and calls that a success.
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I see lots of screaming about it including Republicans who want to protect their favorite programs.

Obviously we are not paying enough as I read daily on this very site all the vitriol about the deficit an debt. So lets pay our bills. I suggest a program of seriously cutting spending on the one side of the ledger while raising revenues on the other side of the ledger. Is there a third column I do not know about?
 
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haymarket said:
Of course you will. And that is your right. But ALL spending the government does contributes to the deficit and that is simply a fact of reality. To single out one program and pretend that it is responsible for the deficit is not either TRUE nor is it intellectually honest.
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In my brief time on this board, I notice you are very free with your accusations of intellectual dishonesty.

Please re-read what I wrote.

Green Man said:
Should not be done by the federal government. The failure of administering something as personal as charity at the federal level is evidenced by the massive deficit spending required to do so.
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Now please explain what is dishonest about saying that these programs require massive deficit spending. Is it not true that these programs require massive deficit spending?
 
ecofarm said:
I did that. I believe that I've discredited your claim that was supposed to support your position.



Irrelevant. I disproved your claim.

Make your argument without BS claims.
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your belief counts for nothing in the way of evidence. provide the actual evidence in the actual positions I took by producing my own words.

or apologize and repent for your dishonest fraud.
 
Green Man said:
In my brief time on this board, I notice you are very free with your accusations of intellectual dishonesty.

Please re-read what I wrote.



Now please explain what is dishonest about saying that these programs require massive deficit spending. Is it not true that these programs require massive deficit spending?
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I have already explained that to you. All government spending contributes to the deficit. To single out one program and pretend that it is the cause while ignoring the others is basically intellectually dishonest.
 
haymarket said:
or apologize and repent for your dishonest fraud.
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Everyone is tired of that routine. Your request for evidence will never be satisfied. My opinion is presented, in response and against your claim. Enjoy the rest of your debate.


Good day.
 
j-mac said:
I wouldn't trust Dylan Matthews as far as I can throw him.
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that is your right. Then feel free to present your own data from a different source and I will be happy to examine it.
 
haymarket said:
I see lots of screaming about it including Republicans who want to protect their favorite programs.

Obviously we are not paying enough as I read daily on this very site all the vitriol about the deficit an debt. So lets pay our bills. I suggest a program of seriously cutting spending on the one side of the ledger while raising revenues on the other side of the ledger. Is there a third column I do not know about?
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Then perhaps you should name these Republicans.
 
ecofarm said:
Everyone is tired of that routine. Your request for evidence will never be satisfied. My opinion is presented, in response and against your claim. Enjoy the rest of your debate.


Good day.
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Do you wish me a good day, or mean that it is a good day whether I want it or not; or that you feel good this day; or that it is a day to be good on?

As for the "routine" - yes, I fully realize that asking you and some others who also employ your dishonest tactics to actually produce my positions via actual quotes is indeed more than you can handle. But I will continue to do it and you will continue to be woefully impotent to produce them. My two years in college debate trained me to insist of this level of proof.
 
Grant said:
Then perhaps you should name these Republicans.
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this provides evidence of my claim that Republicans are also screaming about the sequester cuts

After the Cuts Hit Them, 68% of Republicans Disapprove of Sequester

One consistency among conservatives is that the things they champion often change when they have to live it. So it is with the sequester cuts. According to a new poll released Friday by ABC News and The Washington Post, Republicans are 14% more likely to say they’ve been hurt by the cuts than Democrats, and of those who have, 68% disapprove of them. Those Republicans who have not been hurt only disapprove by 42%.
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here is more from the Wall Street Journal

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304384104579143873007691030

and more

http://freebeacon.com/mckeon-for-the-defense/

there is ample evidence to support my statement.
 
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Conservative said:
Deficits didn't matter as much when the debt was less than 60% of GDP, it exceeds 100% of GDP today and you don't seem to understand the problems that creates. Glad to hear that people like you now support Dick Cheney though as apparently you believe that authorizes the Federal Govt. to put Bush spending on steroids.
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If you're worried so much about the deficit, your hero should not be Bush or Cheney. They very much pushed the deficit and continued the disastrous deficit spending that's been going on for as long as I can remember. I won't defend Obama's record on the deficit, but clearly Bush did plenty of deficit all by himself.

If you are, as you say, worried about the deficit, why is Bush your hero? Defending him by saying he's "Not as bad as Obama" is really dumb.
 
haymarket said:
I have already explained that to you. All government spending contributes to the deficit. To single out one program and pretend that it is the cause while ignoring the others is basically intellectually dishonest.
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It is a fact that these programs require massive deficit spending, so my statement was perfectly true.
 
Green Man said:
It is a fact that these programs require massive deficit spending, so my statement was perfectly true.
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It is true that ALL programs contribute to the over all budget bottom line. When anybody singles out a certain program or type of program and ignores the other and the effect they also have contributing to both spending and the deficit, they are engaging in intellectual dishonesty.

here was your statement in your own 168

The failure of administering something as personal as charity at the federal level is evidenced by the massive deficit spending required to do so.
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The reality is that the federal government takes in enough to cover these programs without running a debt or deficit. Of course, that would mean significant and draconian cuts in other areas of the budget. And to take that position would be just as dishonest as yours singling out charity programs for blame in massive deficit spending.
 
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