• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Egypt to expand Russia cooperation after fall out with US: FM

anatta

anatta

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
24,818
Reaction score
10,577
Location
daily dukkha
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Egypt is taking a more "independent" tack and broadening its choices, he said.

"Independence is having choices. So the objective of this foreign policy is to provide Egypt with choices, more choices. So I'm not going to substitute. I'm going to add," he said
Click to expand...
Egypt to expand Russia cooperation after fall out with US: FM

another stupid Obama move ; suspending some military aid ; including re-supply parts to Egypt a few weeks ago.

There is a law the US cannot provide aid to a junta gov't; but Congress has been looking the other way. Never said a word.
This action (suspension) was the same week there were small organized disturbances by the E. Muslim Brotherhood.

Obama could have just left the status quo; there was no call to suspend aid - and he didn't during/ or after the overthrow of Morsi.

Amnety International was making noises about "democracy" (a fine idea; but not at the expense of a stable, functional nation).
IMHO Amnesty got to Obama, or one of his aids - who knows? Obama is so unengaged.

Amazing how Obama cannot even leave well enough alone; muchless drone the heck out of the planet.

At least he didn't invade Iraq, just escalated Afg., and led the NATO overthrow of Qaddafi to turn Libya into a 'terrorist state'

Just another hacking down the fairway with Eqypt now; leaving an opeing for the Russian to get their Bear Claws into the ME.
Syria was their only real area of influence, now we just opened the door to Egypt.
How's that for "change?"
 
Good. Egypt needs all the help it can get. If Egypt manages to become the backwards, cult of personality, quasi-democracy like Russia - it will be an improvement.
 
annata said:
Amnety International was making noises about "democracy" (a fine idea; but not at the expense of a stable, functional nation).
Click to expand...

Genocidal dictatorship is neither stable nor functioning. I'm not sure what you think the purpose of government is.

I bet you would call Saddam's Iraq stable and functioning despite genocide twice, 17 unscrs violated, the invasion of neighbors, the use of chemical weapons, crippling sanctions, institutionalized rape, a fake WMD program and the intentional starvation of 400k children.
 
Last edited:
This is just more evidence of the abject and failure of the foreign policy of this lame and directionless Community Organizer.

He has frittered away the chance to do something with his Presidency in a time of crisis on pet projects that he feels good about.

His inability to address what is important, like the economy and the foreign affairs issues in favor of gay rights, exacerbating racial tension, politicking and destroying healthcare is an embarrassment to him and he is utterly unaware of it.

If FDR had ignored the World War, it would have been a similar abdication. Obama is a failed leader, failed President who has missed the chance to be a great leader in trying times.

Our economy is circling the drain, we have receded from the role of international leadership and we will soon find out that the dollar is replaced as the currency of international trade.

It happened to Britain when the USA ascended and it is happening to us right now. Thank you Mr. President!
 
joG said:
That the Russians are playing a multi-polar game of power might be stupid and destructive. It is, however, a fact. That requires a much stronger foreign policy team than you need in a bi-polar game like the Cold War or in a Monopole like after the end of it.

We do not have that and Putin is a relatively good player.
Click to expand...

I agree we are now competing with Russia for spheres of influence -especially the ME.
Russia isn't going to make any headway in Europe, or the Baltic States, Poland. Ukraine (etc.)

I doubt any invasion like Czechoslovakia in the past; but Putkin is a chess player, while Obama shows his cards
( to mix methaphors) that democracy is always going to be the trump card for the U.S.

We saw it in Syria, where Kerry gave Lavrov (Russian FM) an opening, which was quickly filled.

Not particurally concered with our expansionism, but am concerenced with at least checking Russian influence
 
annata said:
I agree we are now competing with Russia for spheres of influence -especially the ME.
Russia isn't going to make any headway in Europe, or the Baltic States, Poland. Ukraine (etc.)

I doubt any invasion like Czechoslovakia in the past; but Putkin is a chess player, while Obama shows his cards
( to mix methaphors) that democracy is always going to be the trump card for the U.S.

We saw it in Syria, where Kerry gave Lavrov (Russian FM) an opening, which was quickly filled.

Not particurally concered with our expansionism, but am concerenced with at least checking Russian influence
Click to expand...

Two short points:

- In Europe Germany is liable coalesce with Russia to the detriment of the US and international stability and has demonstrated this on a number of occasions.

- The US has never been politically expansionist. it has always gone for international safety and stability. That many people might feel this has not been so is understandable. If you live by selling pot you resent the cops finding your field.
But that is only part of this point. The Russians want to play a power game in a multi-polar situation without robustly enforced rules of engagement and without reliable or even legitimate arbitration. The instability of this structure will grow as more players enter the game and grow relatively more powerful.
 
joG said:
Two short points:

- In Europe Germany is liable coalesce with Russia to the detriment of the US and international stability and has demonstrated this on a number of occasions.

- The US has never been politically expansionist. it has always gone for international safety and stability. That many people might feel this has not been so is understandable. If you live by selling pot you resent the cops finding your field.
But that is only part of this point. The Russians want to play a power game in a multi-polar situation without robustly enforced rules of engagement and without reliable or even legitimate arbitration. The instability of this structure will grow as more players enter the game and grow relatively more powerful.
Click to expand...
It's a good point, about Russia entering the new multi-polar world (BRIC countries/China's Shanghi Co-opertaion Organization)
without global rules. I do tend to think we are expansionists, not like Russia, but to facilitate our sphere of influence -
but it can be argued we seek stability;no just influence.
Small point.

The Egyptian policy is disasterous on both fronts, as well as encouraging the Muslim Brotherhood, which is now an outlawed organization
 
Unfortunately, there's a price to be paid for the lack of a coherent U.S. foreign policy toward Egypt. It was in the U.S. interests to help Egypt develop a stable government. Instead, the U.S. increasingly punished Egypt even as the transitional government tried to make progress. It is only natural that Egypt is looking elsewhere and Russia was ready to try to reverse its loss of influence in Egypt following the 1973 Arab-Israeli war.
 
donsutherland1 said:
Unfortunately, there's a price to be paid for the lack of a coherent U.S. foreign policy toward Egypt. It was in the U.S. interests to help Egypt develop a stable government. Instead, the U.S. increasingly punished Egypt even as the transitional government tried to make progress. It is only natural that Egypt is looking elsewhere and Russia was ready to try to reverse its loss of influence in Egypt following the 1973 Arab-Israeli war.
Click to expand...
my feelings exactly.
all this talk about democracy, when Egypt is in danger of full dysfunction/more mass unrest, and the economy still sputtering

The US could have simply been doing what it did for years, support the Egyptians as our ally - let them have their juntas. do we really care?

Now our "pricipled stance" is just stupidly forcing Egypt to look elsewhere , in case we are opening the door for Russian influence ourselves.
 
joG said:
That the Russians are playing a multi-polar game of power might be stupid and destructive. It is, however, a fact. That requires a much stronger foreign policy team than you need in a bi-polar game like the Cold War or in a Monopole like after the end of it.

We do not have that and Putin is a relatively good player.
Click to expand...

Putin plays chess while Obama plays checkers.
 
joG said:
That the Russians are playing a multi-polar game of power might be stupid and destructive. It is, however, a fact. That requires a much stronger foreign policy team than you need in a bi-polar game like the Cold War or in a Monopole like after the end of it.

We do not have that and Putin is a relatively good player.
Click to expand...

Being a relatively good player means being the lowest bidder economically and ethically?

Russia can fund Egypt. The US can drop a top 5 (2?) foreign aid recipient.
 
annata said:
I agree we are now competing with Russia for spheres of influence -especially the ME.
Russia isn't going to make any headway in Europe, or the Baltic States, Poland. Ukraine (etc.)

I doubt any invasion like Czechoslovakia in the past; but Putkin is a chess player, while Obama shows his cards
( to mix methaphors) that democracy is always going to be the trump card for the U.S.

We saw it in Syria, where Kerry gave Lavrov (Russian FM) an opening, which was quickly filled.

Not particurally concered with our expansionism, but am concerenced with at least checking Russian influence
Click to expand...

The problem with both Kerry and Obama is that they say what they think the American people want to hear rather than what their antagonists need to here. Naturally this fuzziness and mixed messages will be taken advantage of by those with more realpolitik experience.
 
ecofarm said:
Being a relatively good player means being the lowest bidder economically and ethically?

Russia can fund Egypt. The US can drop a top 5 (2?) foreign aid recipient.
Click to expand...



The US under Obama can "do" nothing. Events will occur and the US will have no impact on the direction or the outcome. We have not been in this position as a world power since the 30's.

We are a forgotten factor in any decision made in the Middle East.
 
ecofarm said:
We wish.
Click to expand...



I misstated that. I meant in the guidance of any decision in the Middle East.

The superstitious, stone age cultures of the area will still hate us because that is what they do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom