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Thread: Big quake near Fukushima would ‘decimate Japan, lead to US West Coast evacuation

  1. #21
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    Re: Big quake near Fukushima would ‘decimate Japan, lead to US West Coast evacuation

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    I always understood the risk as being bioaccumulation in our oceanic food sources. The higher order species like tuna are already testing positive for higher amounts of radioactive material. It's kind of ironic that a country such as Japan who refuses to moderate its over-fishing of the ocean is now being faced with having to consume radioactive food.

    Besides, it is too early to just say "math" anyway. Humans understand natural systems better than they used to but there is still a lot to be desired, and we don't know how events will chain react. The projected time for the most nuclear fallout to reach the west coast, if it happens, will be in spring 2014. I will be keeping my eye out on the independent research sources, since I don't trust government or green organizations anymore to be honest.
    Those "higher levels" of radioactivity in the fish are still less radioactive than your average banana.

    Brazil nuts are a couple orders of magnitude more radioactive.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Big quake near Fukushima would ‘decimate Japan, lead to US West Coast evacuation

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Below is a few pics of the dreaded "Elephants Foot". That's what's left of the ACTUAL #4 Reactor' Core at Cherrnobyl after it breached the containment vessel and made it into a basement where it cooled. Notice the Russian technician.


    Attachment 67156648
    Attachment 67156649
    Attachment 67156650

    Chernobyl was a Graphite Moderated light water tube reactor that used Uranium-235 enriched to about 2 to 3 %.
    Wait; are you going to tell me the version where:



    Was caused by a hydrogen explosion?

    Seems to me that there would need to be substantial amounts of hydrogen to explode that big?

    They also found debris over five km away... Not to mention that the spent fuel rods were on the roof.

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    Re: Big quake near Fukushima would ‘decimate Japan, lead to US West Coast evacuation

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Wait; are you going to tell me the version where:



    Was caused by a hydrogen explosion?

    Seems to me that there would need to be substantial amounts of hydrogen to explode that big?

    They also found debris over five km away... Not to mention that the spent fuel rods were on the roof.
    *Sigh*....

    That explosion was the result of Hydrogen gas build up inside the containment vessels due to a process called "Zirconium Fuel Fuel Cladding Water Reaction ". The exterior of the MOX Fuel rods used at Fukishima ( and many other light water reactors ) are made out of a Zirconium Alloy. Zirconium is used because of it's corrosion resistance and because it's transparent to neutrons.

    BUT, if the clad coating comes in contact with steam at super high temperatures and starts to oxidize, it produces Hydrogen. Hydrogen builds until it find an ignition source and the BOOM. Same thing happened at 3 Mile Island but to a much smaller degree.

    That has nothing to due with the "FUSION" of the two Hydrogen isotopes ( Tritium and Deuterium ), nor was that explosion a "atomic explosion ". We know from past disasters like The Hindenburg that Hydrogen accumulation inside a large vessel can lead to large explosions.

    In most modern Nuclear reactors the presence of Steam Bubbles in the Primary cooling loop actually causes the Reactor Power output to drop and that's because the vast majority of Western Nuclear reactors are " Negative Void Coefficient " Reactors.

    Chernobyl was a "Positive Void Coefficient " Reactor so as more and more steam bubbles appeared the power of that reactor climbed until it finally exploded.

    The Reactors at Fukishima didn't melt down because of those Hydrogen-Air explosions, they melted down because the Tsunami knocked out their back-up Generators and there was no way to run the circulating pumps that cool the reactors. The explosions are irrelevant. The reactors were already compromised past the point of no return when the buildings blew apart.

    If the Japanese had any sense they first, wouldn't have built a Nuclear Power Plant on a coast susceptible to Tsunamis ( the Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant would still be in service today ) and second, they would have had a fail-safe that pumped Nitrogen into the reactor containment vessels when the presence of Hydrogen could be verified.

    Pointing to those explosions as evidence that we're all doomed seems a bit disingenuous.

    If you sincerely want to discuss the safety of Nuclear Power you have to educate yourself a bit and stop watching Shock videos on YouTube that claim we're all gonna die due to Cesium -137 poisoning.
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    Re: Big quake near Fukushima would ‘decimate Japan, lead to US West Coast evacuation

    You are still hung up on the ONE typo, where I is next to u on the keyboard and was a typo... You forgot the other mentions of fission to stick on that. I am aware of the differences.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    *Sigh*....

    That explosion was the result of Hydrogen gas build up inside the containment vessels due to a process called "Zirconium Fuel Fuel Cladding Water Reaction ". The exterior of the MOX Fuel rods used at Fukishima ( and many other light water reactors ) are made out of a Zirconium Alloy. Zirconium is used because of it's corrosion resistance and because it's transparent to neutrons.
    You are confusing the first explosion with the second explosion... The first one looks like your description would be valid...



    Not;




    That has nothing to due with the "FUSION" of the two Hydrogen isotopes ( Tritium and Deuterium ), nor was that explosion a "atomic explosion ". We know from past disasters like The Hindenburg that Hydrogen accumulation inside a large vessel can lead to large explosions.
    Yes, of course, and im not claiming to know WHAT exploded; however, that second one in no way appears like a "contained hydrogen explosion" (whatever the technical details are)


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_xUa...e_gdata_player

    Watch from 3:00-at least 5:00 and this guy tries to have it both ways. Won't back away from it being a hydrogen explosion; but admits that between himself and other scientists, cannot explain the power in that explosion.

    If the Japanese had any sense they first, wouldn't have built a Nuclear Power Plant on a coast susceptible to Tsunamis ( the Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant would still be in service today ) and second, they would have had a fail-safe that pumped Nitrogen into the reactor containment vessels when the presence of Hydrogen could be verified.

    Pointing to those explosions as evidence that we're all doomed seems a bit disingenuous.
    No, it's bad, and we can't delude ourselves that this isn't a big deal... Doomed is a bit strong; we don't know what will happen to all the radiation thats found it's way in the oceans...

    If you sincerely want to discuss the safety of Nuclear Power you have to educate yourself a bit and stop watching Shock videos on YouTube that claim we're all gonna die due to Cesium -137 poisoning.
    There's more than just cesium....

    Now I do agree with you; nuclear power is extremely safe an clean power... Until something goes wrong.

    Consider that nuclear waste takes millions of years to decay, and it's only a problem when that waste escapes, it's not even 100 years and there's been 3 MAJOR incidents with nuclear power...


    The nice thing is that since most people receive only small doses if a person gets a cancer 10-15 years later it becomes difficult to attribute it to the exposure.

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    Re: Big quake near Fukushima would ‘decimate Japan, lead to US West Coast evacuation

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Those "higher levels" of radioactivity in the fish are still less radioactive than your average banana.

    Brazil nuts are a couple orders of magnitude more radioactive.
    False equivalence; I've explained this before...

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    Re: Big quake near Fukushima would ‘decimate Japan, lead to US West Coast evacuation

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Certain phrases by Suzuki, however, aren't the kind of stiff formal talk you'd come to expect from a scientist speaking on grave matters, such as the use of "lying through their teeth" to describe the Japanese government on its handling of the Fukushima disaster; and when describing the potential future catastrophe he described it as "bye bye Japan." This kind of vernacular tends to set off my bull**** alarms. Indeed...





    Then again...



    Big quake near Fukushima would ?decimate Japan, lead to US West Coast evacuation? ? RT News


    So is the good doctor a sensationalist and an alarmist? Or is this a good time to check out some worthless Nevada and Utah real estate?
    Michio Kaku mentioned this a year ago. Fukushima could end up being apocalyptic.
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    Re: Big quake near Fukushima would ‘decimate Japan, lead to US West Coast evacuation

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Michio Kaku mentioned this a year ago. Fukushima could end up being apocalyptic.
    That only applies to people who have no objective educated reference.

    Scare tactics indeed.
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    Re: Big quake near Fukushima would ‘decimate Japan, lead to US West Coast evacuation

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    You are still hung up on the ONE typo, where I is next to u on the keyboard and was a typo... You forgot the other mentions of fission to stick on that. I am aware of the differences.




    You are confusing the first explosion with the second explosion... The first one looks like your description would be valid...



    Not;






    Yes, of course, and im not claiming to know WHAT exploded; however, that second one in no way appears like a "contained hydrogen explosion" (whatever the technical details are)


    Arnie Gundersen gives a detailed, Step-by-step walkthrough of the Fukushima accidents - YouTube

    Watch from 3:00-at least 5:00 and this guy tries to have it both ways. Won't back away from it being a hydrogen explosion; but admits that between himself and other scientists, cannot explain the power in that explosion.



    No, it's bad, and we can't delude ourselves that this isn't a big deal... Doomed is a bit strong; we don't know what will happen to all the radiation thats found it's way in the oceans...



    There's more than just cesium....

    Now I do agree with you; nuclear power is extremely safe an clean power... Until something goes wrong.

    Consider that nuclear waste takes millions of years to decay, and it's only a problem when that waste escapes, it's not even 100 years and there's been 3 MAJOR incidents with nuclear power...


    The nice thing is that since most people receive only small doses if a person gets a cancer 10-15 years later it becomes difficult to attribute it to the exposure.
    The second explosion could have only resulted from one of two different scenarios.

    Either from hydrogen, produced as super-heated steam reacted with the Zirconium cladding or a build up of pressure as molten core material came in contact with water and produced super heated steam.

    That second scenario was a real threat at Chernobyl as molten core threatened to breach the lower levels beneath the reactor and come in contact with a storage area filled with water.

    Are you trying to suggest that the second explosion was because core material went critical ? I've already explained why that's NOT POSSIBLE.
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    Re: Big quake near Fukushima would ‘decimate Japan, lead to US West Coast evacuation

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    The second explosion could have only resulted from one of two different scenarios.

    Either from hydrogen, produced as super-heated steam reacted with the Zirconium cladding or a build up of pressure as molten core material came in contact with water and produced super heated steam.

    That second scenario was a real threat at Chernobyl as molten core threatened to breach the lower levels beneath the reactor and come in contact with a storage area filled with water.

    Are you trying to suggest that the second explosion was because core material went critical ? I've already explained why that's NOT POSSIBLE.
    No, I'm trusting this expert, gundersen, he says in this presentation that himself, and other scientists CANNOT explain how hydrogen in any concentration can generate a detonation (as opposed to deflagration).

    That and the FACT that this shot several years of spent fuel many km away.

    Add to that the extent to which tepco has been lying from the start, covering up radiation readings, etc...

    So what are we left with??

    Either;
    A) unknown exploded
    B) hydrogen exploded in an unexplained configuration for the power of the explosion
    C) the "impossible" is not quite as impossible as you suggest

    I'm really not making any claims, but at a certain point, when even a novice in the subject, as myself can see the bs getting tossed around here, you gotta start asking the right questions.

    Of course, I'm also not taking the side of the eco-fascists, they are just as crazy.

    Seriously though, the official numbers put Fukushima as between 3-4x the radiation that used to be background levels through the ocean.

    The question becomes, as safe and as clean as nuclear energy is, how many of these accidents can we have before the earth actually does become toxic to humans?

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