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Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

Un biased said:
I think the police made the right call . If a fire fighter deemed it to hot how would the father be able to withstand . In times of panic one can make bad decisions . A father may have to bury his son but the father 's family doesn't have to burry him along with the child . The part about the tazzing im not so sure of what to make of it because it really doesn't say how the father reacted after he was hand cuffed he might of still been struggling to the point it may have been necessary since most people would if their child's life was at stake .
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Oh hell, why dont we just say he was the step father and not the "real" father so he had no business trying to save said child.
Geez.
Its the same old thing. The cops show up and go straight to the lowest common denominator. Seen it a million times.
Dont make a move we dont approve first and you will pay the price.
A mans childs life was at stake and cops and firefighters were fine just hanging out till the structure burned out. And god forbid the parents try to act on their own because they dont wear badges.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Oh hell, why dont we just say he was the step father and not the "real" father so he had no business trying to save said child.
Geez.
Its the same old thing. The cops show up and go straight to the lowest common denominator. Seen it a million times.
Dont make a move we dont approve first and you will pay the price.
A mans childs life was at stake and cops and firefighters were fine just hanging out till the structure burned out. And god forbid the parents try to act on their own because they dont wear badges.
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Step father part of the post has nothing to do with anything . Fire fighter have more than badges they have equipment that allows them to actually see inside of a burning building and since their would be a lot of smoke and other gases that a rag would not be sufficient to stop someone from inhaling and passing out . A man in state of urgency would not take in consideration of someone who was trained to do so . The Don't make a move argument doesn't make sense in the fact this is about a cop just not wanting the man to enter a building that is currently on fire , and a fire fighter deeming it to hot for even some one who is as said before trained and has more knowledge and experience with rescuing people in a burning house from doing something that would make a mother burry her husband and child. I have more to my post you did not address which suggest you have nothing to refute my claim on that matter .
 
Un biased said:
Step father part of the post has nothing to do with anything . Fire fighter have more than badges they have equipment that allows them to actually see inside of a burning building and since their would be a lot of smoke and other gases that a rag would not be sufficient to stop someone from inhaling and passing out . A man in state of urgency would not take in consideration of someone who was trained to do so . The Don't make a move argument doesn't make sense in the fact this is about a cop just not wanting the man to enter a building that is currently on fire , and a fire fighter deeming it to hot for even some one who is as said before trained and has more knowledge and experience with rescuing people in a burning house from doing something that would make a mother burry her husband and child. I have more to my post you did not address which suggest you have nothing to refute my claim on that matter .
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Yea, I forgot. They are gods.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Yea, I forgot. They are gods.
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:?: I don't think I ever mentioned that . What does it mean ? It was more on the lines of a mother having to bury her husband as well as the child .
 
Un biased said:
:?: I don't think I ever mentioned that . What does it mean ? It was more on the lines of a mother having to bury her husband as well as the child .
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It means "hey cops and fire are here". Listen to them, period. No deviations, no thinking on your own. Do what they say or pay a price.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Oh hell, why dont we just say he was the step father and not the "real" father so he had no business trying to save said child.
Geez.
Its the same old thing. The cops show up and go straight to the lowest common denominator. Seen it a million times.
Dont make a move we dont approve first and you will pay the price.
A mans childs life was at stake and cops and firefighters were fine just hanging out till the structure burned out. And god forbid the parents try to act on their own because they dont wear badges.
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sorry dude, but by the time the cops and firefighters got there and by the time the dude tried to go back in.....that kid was already dead.
 
RedAkston said:
He might have saved the boy. We'll never know - because of the actions of the police. I buried my son 2 1/2 years ago. I'd rather die in a fire 1,000 times than bury my son once. Had I been in the position to save him, there's nothing I wouldn't have done to try. This man will live with this for the rest of his life.

I realize this was a judgement call on behalf of the police officer, but it was the wrong call from where I sit.
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First off... I am extremely sorry to hear that. I know it was a while ago but my thoughts are with you.

Second... I agree. The Fire Fighter thought it was too hot/dangerous to enter so don't enter but to stop a family member from trying to save a child is going too far. He probably would have died in the attempt but that is his decision and right. My daughter was swept to sea in a rogue wave. I went after her and saved her. It was not as dangerous as this fire, I am sure, but what if some cop stopped me and she had died? I would probably, literally, kill the cop and go to prison.
 
Un biased said:
Step father part of the post has nothing to do with anything . Fire fighter have more than badges they have equipment that allows them to actually see inside of a burning building and since their would be a lot of smoke and other gases that a rag would not be sufficient to stop someone from inhaling and passing out . A man in state of urgency would not take in consideration of someone who was trained to do so . The Don't make a move argument doesn't make sense in the fact this is about a cop just not wanting the man to enter a building that is currently on fire , and a fire fighter deeming it to hot for even some one who is as said before trained and has more knowledge and experience with rescuing people in a burning house from doing something that would make a mother burry her husband and child. I have more to my post you did not address which suggest you have nothing to refute my claim on that matter .
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Sometimes you just have to try regardless... heroic actions sometimes fail but that does not mean that we don't try or die in the attempt.

...and what device allows fire fighters to see inside a burning building and know what is going on in there. That is news to me. Our fire brigade, of which I was a member, never had anything like that.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Sometimes you just have to try regardless... heroic actions sometimes fail but that does not mean that we don't try or die in the attempt.

...and what device allows fire fighters to see inside a burning building and know what is going on in there. That is news to me. Our fire brigade, of which I was a member, never had anything like that.
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For a couple of things, they at least have flashlights or better (some have thermal imagers, heck, even we had special thermal imaging devices in the Navy to see hot spots within burning buildings, which would also allow a person to see bodies that are still alive but not actually a part of the fire, and that was back over 15 years ago when I went through bootcamp). They would also have boots (vice barefeet), protective, fire resistant clothing (vice pjs), and some sort of SCBAs (not sure what civilians use). Navy uses "NIFTI" so I'm willing to bet that some civilian firefighters have something probably better.

Glossary of firefighting equipment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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roguenuke said:
For a couple of things, they at least have flashlights or better (some have thermal imagers, heck, even we had special thermal imaging devices in the Navy to see hot spots within burning buildings, which would also allow a person to see bodies that are still alive but not actually a part of the fire, and that was back over 15 years ago when I went through bootcamp). They would also have boots (vice barefeet), protective, fire resistant clothing (vice pjs), and some sort of SCBAs (not sure what civilians use). Navy uses "NIFTI" so I'm willing to bet that some civilian firefighters have something probably better.

Glossary of firefighting equipment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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We had that too but it was not sensitive enough to determine a body in another room that is on fire. We had most of the other stuff...
 
CRUE CAB said:
Yea, I am sure thats the story. It always is. Bottom line is the home owner didnt bow down and capitulate. He forgot who was in charge at his own home.
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Are you debating or whining? You've been proven wrong on so many levels...yet I keep coming back...and here you are with more nonsense. Just announce to us that you hate the police and no matter what they do you we're going to hate them for it. It would save a lot of us time from reading your nonsense.
 
Bodhisattva said:
We had that too but it was not sensitive enough to determine a body in another room that is on fire. We had most of the other stuff...
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I didn't say a body on fire (since a person on fire isn't very likely to be saved). I said a person not part of a fire, in others words not on fire, since if the fire is nearby or in the room, it isn't likely to work very well. However, if the child was in a smoke filled room, without fire in it or burning too bad, then the firefighters had a better chance of seeing and therefore saving him than the father.
 
roguenuke said:
I didn't say a body on fire (since a person on fire isn't very likely to be saved). I said a person not part of a fire, in others words not on fire, since if the fire is nearby or in the room, it isn't likely to work very well. However, if the child was in a smoke filled room, without fire in it or burning too bad, then the firefighters had a better chance of seeing and therefore saving him than the father.
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I didn't either though it was written messy. I said a body in another ROOM that was on fire. I was also sarcastically asking him what piece of equipment could "See inside a burning building" as he asserted. There isn't one. The thermal imaging device allows one to see through the smoke or into dark places... not through walls. We had a thermal imaging device as well as one that could detect heat through walls to find fires that were creeping through wall spaces but not visible to the eye. I got you on fire fighting equipment, for as I said I was in the fire brigade for over three years.
 
Constantine said:
Are you debating or whining? You've been proven wrong on so many levels...yet I keep coming back...and here you are with more nonsense. Just announce to us that you hate the police and no matter what they do you we're going to hate them for it. It would save a lot of us time from reading your nonsense.
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So, you like making assumptions and being wrong all at the same time. Dont you?
 
CRUE CAB said:
We dont know that.
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Yes we do. If it was too hot for the Fire Fighters to go in then it was several thousand degrees hot in that house. Now combine that with the loss of oxygen because we know fire feeds on oxygen correct? There was very little oxygen concentration to breathe since it was fueling the fire. Even worse for lungs is the smoke and chemicals from the fire that would have seared the lungs and deprived the body of oxygen. What kills you in a fire is usually smoke inhalation. So there's 3 different reasons why we certainly know that the child was indeed dead.

CRUE CAB said:
So, you like making assumptions and being wrong all at the same time. Dont you?
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Hi kettle. Meet pot.

Ironic you would say such a thing after this thread. I'm not even sure you realize how much a fool you've made yourself look in this thread.

You clearly hate the cops. That's not an assumption....we can read what you type lol.

As for me, no I don't assume, but I hate people like you without even trying.
 
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Constantine said:
Yes we do. If it was too hot for the Fire Fighters to go in then it was several thousand degrees hot in that house. Now combine that with the loss of oxygen because we know fire feeds on oxygen correct? There was very little oxygen concentration to breathe since it was fueling the fire. Even worse for lungs is the smoke and chemicals from the fire that would have seared the lungs and deprived the body of oxygen. What kills you in a fire is usually smoke inhalation. So there's 3 different reasons why we certainly know that the child was indeed dead.



Hi kettle. Meet pot.

Ironic you would say such a thing after this thread. I'm not even sure you realize how much a fool you've made yourself look in this thread.

You clearly hate the cops. That's not an assumption....we can read what you type lol.

As for me, no I don't assume, but I hate people like you without even trying.
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Oh, you hate me? Oh gee, am I supposed to actually care about that?
Former LEO, son of a LEO. Still think I "hate" cops? Go on, and assume some more.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I didn't either though it was written messy. I said a body in another ROOM that was on fire. I was also sarcastically asking him what piece of equipment could "See inside a burning building" as he asserted. There isn't one. The thermal imaging device allows one to see through the smoke or into dark places... not through walls. We had a thermal imaging device as well as one that could detect heat through walls to find fires that were creeping through wall spaces but not visible to the eye. I got you on fire fighting equipment, for as I said I was in the fire brigade for over three years.
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But it would still be better than what the guy had, which was nothing. In fact, just plain old flashlights and/or clothes would be better than what that guy had. He didn't even have any shoes on. He was extremely ill-equipped to go into a burning building and the odds of him actually locating his son (without stepping on him, which would definitely not have saved him) were extremely small.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Sometimes you just have to try regardless... heroic actions sometimes fail but that does not mean that we don't try or die in the attempt.

...and what device allows fire fighters to see inside a burning building and know what is going on in there. That is news to me. Our fire brigade, of which I was a member, never had anything like that.
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I meant the devices used to cut a hole in the building that vents gas and smoke that allows them to see to a certain degree but much more allows them to see 3 feet in front of them . Heroic if it was a decent chance stupid if you are likely to die in the process as in this scenario seriously how would this man see 3 feet in front of him with poisonous fumes and lack of oxygen and not die . Life is not a movie .
 
CRUE CAB said:
It means "hey cops and fire are here". Listen to them, period. No deviations, no thinking on your own. Do what they say or pay a price.
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Its sort of a better price than dying trying to do something you seen in a movie . Think of it logically as you have not . How would this man save his son in a fire . Only using moral with no logic does not make a good argument . Besides you made no mention with my own moral part of the post you know how the mother would be burying her husband as well as child .
 
Un biased said:
Its sort of a better price than dying trying to do something you seen in a movie . Think of it logically as you have not . How would this man save his son in a fire . Only using moral with no logic does not make a good argument . Besides you made no mention with my own moral part of the post you know how the mother would be burying her husband as well as child .
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Wow, so yall would just let your kids burn to death because the police and fire dept say so.
Has nothing to do with what is seen in movies. Has to do with being a parent, you should try it.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Wow, so yall would just let your kids burn to death because the police and fire dept say so.
Has nothing to do with what is seen in movies. Has to do with being a parent, you should try it.
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I would try to but if they restrain me I would understand towards the end when I get the reason why they did so . Common sense can elude some people when their child is at stake at a certain time but it passes and you understand why , but then again I might not if I had other loved ones who depend on me or if fireman comes and deem it too hot for even him . Another variable as well might come into play if I do actually get a chance inside the burning building after taking a few steps inside might think it would be impossible and turn back if it was still possible since inside a burning building it would be very hot and the gases would be like breathing through a tiny straw and be impossible to see except the glow of the fire . Their are several possible to this but in the end the outcomes are similar and most of them are that the child dies and only a slim chance that the father would be victorious in rescuing his child . Still only Morales how sad anything else besides them please post it .
 
Un biased said:
I meant the devices used to cut a hole in the building that vents gas and smoke that allows them to see to a certain degree but much more allows them to see 3 feet in front of them . Heroic if it was a decent chance stupid if you are likely to die in the process as in this scenario seriously how would this man see 3 feet in front of him with poisonous fumes and lack of oxygen and not die . Life is not a movie .
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People can hold their breath for a few minutes and he knows the layout of his own house and were is kid is mostly likely to be more than any other firefighter could. If he is willing to try they have no right to stop him.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
People can hold their breath for a few minutes and he knows the layout of his own house and were is kid is mostly likely to be more than any other firefighter could. If he is willing to try they have no right to stop him.
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Yes its their job from letting panicked people from doing things they may regret doing later and have not even thought out well or even have the knowledge of how to do something . Don't forget the police are people as well and would not let a man go off to certain death , if their was a good chance to save a child's life as people its in their genetics they would try to save the child but it was not a good enough possibility for both people to live .
 
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