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Thread: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

  1. #51
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Don't say it again until you post a credible link that proves your theory. I will say, however, that I'd be surprised if IQ weren't taken into account when hiring for many positions -- not just police officers. However. You are making it sound as though they are being dumbed down. I am positive that's not the case.

    Your disdain for coppers is duly noted.

    Barring of High IQs

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovebug View Post
    Why did, what I assume were several adults, need to use a tazer to stop him? How combative was the man? Was every effort made to save the child?
    Too many unanswered questions to judge either way.
    from what I read, the fire started in a downstairs bedroom. by the time the firefighters and cops arrived, flames were coming from the upstairs windows (IOW the house was full engulfed). For a typical house fire, temperatures can reach 1100 degrees F in a matter of minutes and even rooms that are not on fire can reach temps over 300 degrees.

    It took fire crews 8 hours to put the fire out.

    The mother and step-father had already made one attempt to reach the child and had been unsuccessful when the fire first started.

    The odds are extremely high that the child was already dead when the step-father made his second attempt to enter the house. The odds are also extremely high that, had he re-entered the house, the stepfather would have been overcome by smoke and heat shortly after entering.

    If a trained firefighter in protective gear thought it was too hot to enter, what chance would a regular guy in pajamas have?


    Many years ago, I attended the merchant marine fire fighter school. I've been in burning houses, under controlled conditions, and even with protective gear and oxygen masks the heat is virtually unbearable, it's hard to breathe and due to the smoke you can't see a damn thing.

    As sad as this story is, the cops did the right thing and almost assuredly saved this guy from certain and pointless death.
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    The police were looking for money that the man was refusing to pay.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    I understand the boy had a mother.

    As hard as it is to bury a child, it's harder to bury a child and your spouse on the same day. If there were other kids its hard to bury your sibling and your parent on the same day.

    The police made this determination based on the expertise of the fire fighters, who are best placed ( and equipped) to make a decision on safety.

    The only issue in my mind is the use of a taser.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    Well, I'm shocked you were actually able to find something credible on it! Thank you very much! From your link:

    Jordan, a 49-year-old college graduate, took the exam in 1996 and scored 33 points, the equivalent of an IQ of 125. But New London police interviewed only candidates who scored 20 to 27, on the theory that those who scored too high could get bored with police work and leave soon after undergoing costly training.

    Most Cops Just Above Normal The average score nationally for police officers is 21 to 22, the equivalent of an IQ of 104, or just a little above average.

    Jordan alleged his rejection from the police force was discrimination. He sued the city, saying his civil rights were violated because he was denied equal protection under the law.

    But the U.S. District Court found that New London had “shown a rational basis for the policy.” In a ruling dated Aug. 23, the 2nd Circuit agreed. The court said the policy might be unwise but was a rational way to reduce job turnover.
    I do understand their reasoning. Glad to know they keep in the "above average" range though.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Well, I'm shocked you were actually able to find something credible on it! Thank you very much! From your link:



    I do understand their reasoning. Glad to know they keep in the "above average" range though.
    Technically true. 104 is above average because 100 is average.

    We have to start admitting that when we see these atrocities on the news it is more likely from a cop who averaged out at 104. I have personally dealt with cops who were ****ing stupid, and the moment I start stating facts I learned in middle school about the constitution they arrest me and search me. To find nothing. Where I am then free to go. What pisses me off is I have to hire a lawyer to take that cop down for violating my constitutional rights.

    Again, cops in my area are ****ing stupid. There are exceptions I am sure, but for the most part, they are dumbasses with legal guns and pepper spray.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAkston View Post
    He might have saved the boy. We'll never know - because of the actions of the police. I buried my son 2 1/2 years ago. I'd rather die in a fire 1,000 times than bury my son once. Had I been in the position to save him, there's nothing I wouldn't have done to try. This man will live with this for the rest of his life.

    I realize this was a judgement call on behalf of the police officer, but it was the wrong call from where I sit.
    I'm so very sorry for your loss.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Should we start tasering parents on beaches to prevent them drowing when they swim outside the flags (we all know how dangerous that can be) if they are trying to get to their loved one who is caught in a rip and being dragged out to sea?

    Should we have tasered the young girl who not so long ago showed incredible unexplainable strength when she saved her fathers life by lifting a vehicle that her father was pinned under because she could've broken her back?

    Emergency services personnel should be actively trying to encourage/persuade anyone to not participate in what could be considered a potentially dangerous/life threatening situation but there are limits they should employ and they've gone way to far here.

    I've said it before and i'll say it again. Never under estimate the power of love. Ordinary people can do extraordinary things when a loved ones life is in danger.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You aren't just risking your own life though by running back into a fire. You also risk the lives of the responders who have to go in after you to try to save you.
    He absolutely is only risking his own life. Unless you're suggesting that the responders would go in and try and save him after they deemed it not safe enough to go in to try and save his Son and had already given up on him?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    How would his wife feel if she lost both her son and her husband and come to find out her husband died 5 feet in the door not even close to where the son is? She would have just lost both of them for nothing. If he thought rationally about it, I doubt that would be what he would really want.
    She wouldn't have lost her husband for nothing. He was trying to save her Son. Her Son is not nothing.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    He absolutely is only risking his own life. Unless you're suggesting that the responders would go in and try and save him after they deemed it not safe enough to go in to try and save his Son and had already given up on him?

    She wouldn't have lost her husband for nothing. He was trying to save her Son. Her Son is not nothing.
    Considering according to the article I posted, the boy was pulled out of there according to the family, and was still possibly breathing (although not necessarily likely to live either way) which means that they went into the house fairly shortly after the father was pulled from the door. (I believe it said there was a pause of about 2-3 minutes.) That means that yes, they would have had to go in after the guy, save him, and then try to get to his son.

    And yes, the woman could have lost both her husband and her son for nothing since it is almost certain that her husband going in would not have made any difference in the outcome of her son's fate. It sucks when children die, but it sucks more when people do something foolish, like running into a burning building, barefoot and in pajamas, and likely getting themselves killed or at least severely burned unnecessarily.
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