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Thread: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

  1. #21
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    The Police absolutely made the wrong call here. He may not have been able to save his sons life but he's going to have to go to his grave wondering. I wouldn't wish that on any parent.

    Never under estimate the power of love. Ordinary people can do extraordinary things when a loved ones life is in danger.
    : One thing this story tells me is that the policeman is probably not a parent. If he were in the same position, could he let his child die without attempting to save him? Could he could stand there and do nothing because "it's too dangerous?"

    The fact that a stun gun was used tells me that the father was desperately struggling to get to his son. The policeman made a bad judgement call by preventing this. We'll never know what the outcome would have been, and that's what makes this story so very sad.

    Greetings, Serenity.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAkston View Post
    If I want to risk my own life to save the life of my son or stepson, that's my decision. The police overstepped here big time.
    You aren't just risking your own life though by running back into a fire. You also risk the lives of the responders who have to go in after you to try to save you.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    I feel bad for the family and it absolutely is sad that the child died. But the fact remains that people should not go running into burning houses. Can I say that I wouldn't try if it were my children? No. It is more than possible that I would try. But it doesn't mean I would be right. People in emotional states do irrational things. But those things aren't necessarily the right thing to do.

    We have no idea what the cops tried to do before to stop this guy. It isn't likely that they let him get all the way to the door and then decided to stop him. What is likely is that they were trying to stop him using other ways and those things failed.

    Now, he shouldn't have been tasered again, in general, after he was cuffed unless there is more to this (just because a person is cuffed doesn't mean they can't still be fighting and/or be dangerous to themselves or those around them), but then again, it is possible that the grandmother didn't see what she thinks she saw. More investigation should be done into that claim.

    I understand that such a thing is very emotional, but from a practical, logical look at this, the police did the right thing in trying to keep the guy out of that house.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #24
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by MACS-24 View Post
    The fact that they used a tazer at all is outrageous and wrong. At the most they should have tackled, bear-hugged, etc the guy to prevent it but if he got away, so be it, the police tried and he may have been able to save the boy.
    As I said, whether their method of preventing him going in was valid depends on details of the situation none of us know. That's not really the focus of the objections (though it's probably the reason it was reported at all, "tazer" being one of the media's magic words these days).

    If this had been an article about police officers tackling the guy trying to run in to the burning building, you'd all be condemning them all the same and again, if it had been about police (and fire-fighters) standing aside letting the man ran to his death, you'd all be condemning them. There is no action or inaction the police officers could have taken in the situation they were put in that would prevent them being condemned.

    The report states that the fire-fighters, professionals with all the protective equipment and in general no shortage of courage when it comes to putting themselves in danger to rescue people, couldn't get in to the burning building. Are you saying they should have gone in anyway, because they "may" have been able to save the boy. Should the police officers followed them in because they "may" have been able to save the boy. Maybe all the neighbours and passers by should have followed them in too. After all, any one of them "may" have been able to save the boy. Put bluntly, how many people would you expect to throw themselves in to the flames before you accept the risk to too great compared to the ever diminishing chance of saving the child?

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by HonestJoe View Post
    I think the people condemning the police here are being grossly dishonest, if only to themselves. I don't doubt for a moment that, had this been an article about the police just standing by and letting the guy run in to an inferno to his inevitable death, they would be among the masses of people calling for their heads?

    They acted on instinct to try to save someone's life, ironically the same thing the man himself thought he was doing too. Whether they did it in the right way can only be honestly assessed by someone who knows all the details of the situation at the time (which none of us do).

    The accusations of using the tazer after he was handcuffed clearly needs investigation but, without any further information, that's separate to the principle of their initial act.
    Absolutely not. Any decent parent would risk their life to save that of their child. I would not have held the police accountable if they let him go in, not one little bit.
    Welfare (Food Stamps, WIC, etc...) are not entitlements. They are taxpayer funded handouts and shouldn't be called entitlements at all. Social Security and Veteran's benefits are 'Entitlements' because the people receiving them are entitled to them. They were earned and paid for by the recipients.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You aren't just risking your own life though by running back into a fire. You also risk the lives of the responders who have to go in after you to try to save you.
    The responders wouldn't need to go in after me. In this case, they didn't go in after the boy. Had they "done their job" and tried to save the boy, the father wouldn't have been tased in the first place now would he? So your logic is flawed in a big way.
    Welfare (Food Stamps, WIC, etc...) are not entitlements. They are taxpayer funded handouts and shouldn't be called entitlements at all. Social Security and Veteran's benefits are 'Entitlements' because the people receiving them are entitled to them. They were earned and paid for by the recipients.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAkston View Post
    The responders wouldn't need to go in after me. In this case, they didn't go in after the boy. Had they "done their job" and tried to save the boy, the father wouldn't have been tased in the first place now would he? So your logic is flawed in a big way.
    It would be their job to do it if they are right there and see you go in. Plus, they would be able to determine where you are, but they couldn't automatically know where the boy is or even whether he is alive still. You would have just went into the house and aren't likely to die within seconds.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAkston View Post
    Absolutely not. Any decent parent would risk their life to save that of their child. I would not have held the police accountable if they let him go in, not one little bit.
    It doesn't matter if you would have or not, others might have. And no first responder, no police officer (as far as we know) is able to read people so well that they would know whether or not it would happen. And they couldn't possibly know if your kin wouldn't hold them responsible financially for running into a burning house.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAkston View Post
    If I want to risk my own life to save the life of my son or stepson, that's my decision. The police overstepped here big time.
    I agree with you completely...and yet...I understand the police action as well. This is a horrible position all around. Im sure there will be a lawsuit, Im sure there will be some sort of settlement, I hope the family finds a small amount of peace in their compensation and I hope the police officer sleeps well at night knowing he saved a mans life, enabling him the opportunity to hate him for a very very long time.

    Kobayashi Maru ...no win situations suck.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by HonestJoe View Post
    As I said, whether their method of preventing him going in was valid depends on details of the situation none of us know. That's not really the focus of the objections (though it's probably the reason it was reported at all, "tazer" being one of the media's magic words these days).

    If this had been an article about police officers tackling the guy trying to run in to the burning building, you'd all be condemning them all the same and again, if it had been about police (and fire-fighters) standing aside letting the man ran to his death, you'd all be condemning them. There is no action or inaction the police officers could have taken in the situation they were put in that would prevent them being condemned.

    The report states that the fire-fighters, professionals with all the protective equipment and in general no shortage of courage when it comes to putting themselves in danger to rescue people, couldn't get in to the burning building. Are you saying they should have gone in anyway, because they "may" have been able to save the boy. Should the police officers followed them in because they "may" have been able to save the boy. Maybe all the neighbours and passers by should have followed them in too. After all, any one of them "may" have been able to save the boy. Put bluntly, how many people would you expect to throw themselves in to the flames before you accept the risk to too great compared to the ever diminishing chance of saving the child?
    Sorry, my mistake. It wasn't supposed to be a direct quote to you, just a general reply; however, to the bold, I'm saying they should have the choice to if initial restraint by the police failed.
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