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Thread: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Yes. The cops were there. They had full authority, and a moral obligation, to stop him from running back into the house. If they made a conscious decision to allow a hysterical man to run into a burning building, then they will be held responsible (legally and morally).

    I.e. the cops and firefighters show up, you obey them. Period. Note the total lack of sarcasm.
    No. The man has a moral obligation to save his family and the cop has no authority or moral obligation to do anything to stop him. If the man wants to risk his life the cop is to stand aside and butt the hell out. No one asked for his opinion and he should be respectful and keep it to himself. I will NOT obey a police officer or a firefighter that stops me from protecting my family. No, that will not happen. You stop me from protecting my family and there is little doubt we are going to have a problem.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Un biased View Post
    I don't think I ever mentioned that . What does it mean ? It was more on the lines of a mother having to bury her husband as well as the child .
    You mean the man is willing to take a risk that might end his life? So what? It's his life and his child.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Unless its your kid in there and you want to....
    Nope, not even then.

    You do not have an unlimited right to do whatever you want, just because your family is at risk. E.g. you do not have the legal right to grab a gun, drive across town, and shoot a guy that you believe threatened a member of your family. You may want to live in a world where your every whim is law, but thankfully, we don't live in that world.


    A father may be more willing to accept burns on half his body with a small chance of saving the kid than a firefighter would.
    This is not about the risks the father is willing to undertake, or your baseless presumption that a firefighter is unwilling to perform his duty.


    The second "the city" starts telling specific people they cant try to save people and enforcing it if there is a chance of sacrifice then "the city" is more important than "people".
    Uh, no, the goal is to stop more people from dying.


    Let me tell you a little story. One that is true....
    Yeah, cool story bro. I'm sure that firemen actually enjoy watching homes burn down.


    Sorry for not trusting in the system when I know that true action and deeds stems from the personal. Not someones job.
    Yeah, good idea. Hey, I've got a good one! Let's just get rid of fire departments altogether, and give people big fire extinguishers instead. I'm sure that'll work out great.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But it would still be better than what the guy had, which was nothing. In fact, just plain old flashlights and/or clothes would be better than what that guy had. He didn't even have any shoes on. He was extremely ill-equipped to go into a burning building and the odds of him actually locating his son (without stepping on him, which would definitely not have saved him) were extremely small.
    Agreed... but it is his family. If there is A chance then you do whatever you can to protect your children. That is the unwritten rule of parenting. I don't think that the cop should get in trouble with the law but he should expect and deserve a punch in the face by the guy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Life is not a movie
    Thanks, as an ex-fire fighter who has been in burning structures and life and death situations I truly appreciate your input on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Un biased View Post
    Heroic if it was a decent chance stupid if you are likely to die in the process as in this scenario seriously how would this man see 3 feet in front of him with poisonous fumes and lack of oxygen and not die . .
    Not your call. He is a the parent. Stay out of his way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No. The man has a moral obligation to save his family and the cop has no authority or moral obligation to do anything to stop him.
    He does not have the moral right to throw his life away, in a vain attempt to save his family. If nothing else, he has an obligation to the rest of his family, not to destroy his life on the same night as they lose their son.

    In a broader perspective: You cannot unilaterally declare the right to do whatever you want, because you perceive that your family is in danger. You could drive a fleet of trucks through that loophole.

    In fact, if we believe his account, he already fulfilled his obligation; they tried to save the child before escaping the house. Unfortunately, he failed. He was unable to rescue the child before leaving. The odds that he would be able to go back in and save the child, when the fire had gotten worse, was pretty much zero.


    If the man wants to risk his life the cop is to stand aside and butt the hell out.
    Quite the opposite. The job of the cops is to prevent further loss of life. If they let people do whatever they wanted at the scene of a fire, the number of deaths in fires would skyrocket.


    No one asked for his opinion and he should be respectful and keep it to himself. I will NOT obey a police officer or a firefighter that stops me from protecting my family.
    Well then, I hope you're prepared to get hit by a taser.

    In fact, the "to hell with the cops, I'll do what I want" attitude is precisely why police are granted broad authority in these situations.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Thanks, as an ex-fire fighter who has been in burning structures and life and death situations I truly appreciate your input on that.



    Not your call. He is a the parent. Stay out of his way.
    No its not mine it was the police and I believe they were correct in judgment . Its the firefighter's call as well and even they deemed it to hot .
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    He does not have the moral right to throw his life away, in a vain attempt to save his family. If nothing else, he has an obligation to the rest of his family, not to destroy his life on the same night as they lose their son.
    I'm sorry, but you don't get to declare what is a vain attempt here. If he thinks he had a good chance to save his kid then that is all that matters. When I saved my girlfriend from getting raped at sixteen from three men did I have a good chance to save her? Nope, but I ran in anyway and I did actually save her. Sorry, but if someone like you were around and stopped me I would have been royally pissed off and I can't promise your safety in that situation. Butt out of things that are not your business.

    In a broader perspective: You cannot unilaterally declare the right to do whatever you want, because you perceive that your family is in danger. You could drive a fleet of trucks through that loophole.
    Oh, but I can, and I did.

    In fact, if we believe his account, he already fulfilled his obligation; they tried to save the child before escaping the house. Unfortunately, he failed. He was unable to rescue the child before leaving. The odds that he would be able to go back in and save the child, when the fire had gotten worse, was pretty much zero.
    You don't get to tell other people when they have fulfilled their moral obligations. You don't even have an opinion on the matter.

    Quite the opposite. The job of the cops is to prevent further loss of life. If they let people do whatever they wanted at the scene of a fire, the number of deaths in fires would skyrocket.
    No. His job is to protect my life from outside harm from another. If I'm the one doing myself harm his job is to butt out. If he doesn't want to save my kid and I decide that I want to do just that then he can either agree with me or shut up.

    Well then, I hope you're prepared to get hit by a taser.
    Just another reason to never involve the state in anything you do, ever.

    In fact, the "to hell with the cops, I'll do what I want" attitude is precisely why police are granted broad authority in these situations.
    It's not a "to hell with the cops attitude", but a leave me the hell alone attitude. I'm not harming anyone and in fact I'm trying to save someone, so he has no reason to do anything towards me. If he doesn't want to help me for all I care he can leave.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Un biased View Post
    No its not mine it was the police and I believe they were correct in judgment . Its the firefighter's call as well and even they deemed it to hot .
    Good. I don't. This was a fluid scene. If the fire chief called it then I would agree but I have not heard that this was the case. The cop, unless the fire chief called it, has not business doing what he did. If it was a school that was in lock down because of an armed intruder, the cop would have a say since that is a police controlled situation. A fire is not. Evidence of the fire chief calling it and I will shut up about it. Until then... nope.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You mean the man is willing to take a risk that might end his life? So what? It's his life and his child.
    I think you mean some of my other post this was about the mother having to bury her husband and son in which no one has addressed yet . I'm not sure which one you are addressing . Its also the mothers life as well who knows what the pressure of losing a husband and son in the same night would do to her . Its not just his life and his child's their is a entire family. Since even the firefighter deemed it to hot the child would most likely would have succumbed to the fire before the father would have stumbled( stumbled because it would be almost impossible see) to his child.
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