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Thread: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    I don't really know what to make of this because I can sympathize with both.

    Had I been the dad I would certainly want to rescue my child, had I been the officer I would certainly want to prevent someone from running into what appears to me to be certain death.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Really? So tell me, why don't firefighters bring homeowners back into the house to guide the way, when they're trying to rescue people?

    Why bother calling the fire department in the first place? Why not just have the neighbors turn on a few garden hoses? How dangerous can it be, when the entire house is engulfed in flames?

    C'mon, people. This is not a comic book or an action movie. This is basic, grade school stuff. If you are not a firefighter, don't run into a burning building.



    On the contrary. Not only do they have the right, they have a legal and moral obligation to do so. If they let him go, not only would they be remiss in their duties, they would be responsible for letting him die -- along with anyone else who decided to go after them.
    Unless its your kid in there and you want to.... A father may be more willing to accept burns on half his body with a small chance of saving the kid than a firefighter would. The second "the city" starts telling specific people they cant try to save people and enforcing it if there is a chance of sacrifice then "the city" is more important than "people".

    Let me tell you a little story. One that is true. Back in orange county there was a HUGE fire. Many houses were burned down. People were being todl they werent allowed to go near the fires and shood away by cops. Me and my friends got in a van and crossed the barrier during the choas before a good parimiter was established. We ended up driving all around spotting for houses that managed to get embers to float on them and alert fire fighters to the problem before it completely spread to roofs. We were past the cop barrier and the firefighters seemed to never even question us or wonder why we were there.

    After a couple hours we get to a cualdesac and find a 2 firetrucks with 2 squads of people all laying down in peoples front yards, lounging in the grass jsut watching 3 houses begin to burn around them. Totally salvagable. I get out tell their little captain those houses are starting to catch. He looks and pretends he doesnt see it. I point to the fire just starting at a house and he looks right at it. Then pretends he didnt see it again. I start to yell at him and now a few people get weary and he starts to look nervous. Then he just proceeds to pretend I dont exist. Goes and sits down with his pals. And watches the houses proceed to burn.

    Sorry for not trusting in the system when I know that true action and deeds stems from the personal. Not someones job.
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Yes. The cops were there. They had full authority, and a moral obligation, to stop him from running back into the house. If they made a conscious decision to allow a hysterical man to run into a burning building, then they will be held responsible (legally and morally).

    I.e. the cops and firefighters show up, you obey them. Period. Note the total lack of sarcasm.
    Whatever comrade.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Thats the dumbest thing I ever heard. I used to find sleeping brothers on the floor all the time with foot-sonar trying to get across the room when they passed out on weekends. Its pretty obvious when you step on a human. They are squishy.
    When you are panicking, you are not going to notice stepping on that squishy human being until it is too late. Plus, there is the problem that after a while in a fire, stuff starts falling all over the ground. And we have no idea how well kept this child's room was. It is easy to think "sure it was probably clean", but my sons' room is usually a disaster area and they are 4 and 5, not much older than this child. It could have been very clean or it could have had toys, stuffed animals, clothes or anything there.
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Unless its your kid in there and you want to.... A father may be more willing to accept burns on half his body with a small chance of saving the kid than a firefighter would. The second "the city" starts telling specific people they cant try to save people and enforcing it if there is a chance of sacrifice then "the city" is more important than "people".

    Let me tell you a little story. One that is true. Back in orange county there was a HUGE fire. Many houses were burned down. People were being todl they werent allowed to go near the fires and shood away by cops. Me and my friends got in a van and crossed the barrier during the choas before a good parimiter was established. We ended up driving all around spotting for houses that managed to get embers to float on them and alert fire fighters to the problem before it completely spread to roofs. We were past the cop barrier and the firefighters seemed to never even question us or wonder why we were there.

    After a couple hours we get to a cualdesac and find a 2 firetrucks with 2 squads of people all laying down in peoples front yards, lounging in the grass jsut watching 3 houses begin to burn around them. Totally salvagable. I get out tell their little captain those houses are starting to catch. He looks and pretends he doesnt see it. I point to the fire just starting at a house and he looks right at it. Then pretends he didnt see it again. I start to yell at him and now a few people get weary and he starts to look nervous. Then he just proceeds to pretend I dont exist. Goes and sits down with his pals. And watches the houses proceed to burn.

    Sorry for not trusting in the system when I know that true action and deeds stems from the personal. Not someones job.
    You disobeyed the police and firemen? How dare you. Who do you think you are? Must be some kind of a wannabe hero. Don't you know the real heros are wearing badges and uniforms.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    When you are panicking, you are not going to notice stepping on that squishy human being until it is too late. Plus, there is the problem that after a while in a fire, stuff starts falling all over the ground. And we have no idea how well kept this child's room was. It is easy to think "sure it was probably clean", but my sons' room is usually a disaster area and they are 4 and 5, not much older than this child. It could have been very clean or it could have had toys, stuffed animals, clothes or anything there.
    Im done. Sorry but all I hear is blah, blah, blah, blah at this point.
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Im done. Sorry but all I hear is blah, blah, blah, blah at this point.
    Of course you do. Because you feel that your emotional response is the "right one" and that all other responses are wrong and violate rights of parents to try to save their children, as do many others. You don't want to listen to a voice of reason because it would mean second guessing yourself and any future decisions you may make in such a moment. And a lot of it has to do with pride. Some people feel that they have to try to rescue their children/loved ones even if that attempt is ultimately futile in order to satisfy their personal pride. And I honestly sympathize. Heck, a man was convicted and executed (wrongly, in my opinion) with one of the points of evidence against him being "he didn't seem to make a big enough deal out of trying to save his children", despite having burns on his hands showing he tried to get back into the house. But this "people should try to save their children/loved ones despite the futility of the situation and anyone who tries to stop me is wrong" (because honestly I think it is the protesting against the police action that is the only wrong thing here) is just dumb.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Of course you do. Because you feel that your emotional response is the "right one" and that all other responses are wrong and violate rights of parents to try to save their children, as do many others. You don't want to listen to a voice of reason because it would mean second guessing yourself and any future decisions you may make in such a moment. And a lot of it has to do with pride. Some people feel that they have to try to rescue their children/loved ones even if that attempt is ultimately futile in order to satisfy their personal pride. And I honestly sympathize. Heck, a man was convicted and executed (wrongly, in my opinion) with one of the points of evidence against him being "he didn't seem to make a big enough deal out of trying to save his children", despite having burns on his hands showing he tried to get back into the house. But this "people should try to save their children/loved ones despite the futility of the situation and anyone who tries to stop me is wrong" (because honestly I think it is the protesting against the police action that is the only wrong thing here) is just dumb.
    They didnt even let this guy get burns on his hands..... They ****in tazed him lulz. I bet they cared as about as much a the security at the "dotn taze me bro!" incident. They were simply scared for what would go down on the report at the end of shift.
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    You disobeyed the police and firemen? How dare you. Who do you think you are? Must be some kind of a wannabe hero. Don't you know the real heros are wearing badges and uniforms.
    **** the "real heros".
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Yes. The cops were there. They had full authority, and a moral obligation, to stop him from running back into the house. If they made a conscious decision to allow a hysterical man to run into a burning building, then they will be held responsible (legally and morally).

    I.e. the cops and firefighters show up, you obey them. Period. Note the total lack of sarcasm.
    **** them and their "authority".
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

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