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Thread: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

  1. #151
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by MACS-24 View Post
    And the tasered guy's life was not endangered by the taser?

    What's worse than dead? According to previous logic used there was no "relatively safe" place.

    You keep going back to father "endangering plenty of other lives" yet argue first responders already deemed too dangerous to enter meaning they have no intention to enter fire; which is it?
    Tasers rarely kill people. He would have been in much more danger of dying of the fire, either from smoke inhalation or burns or even being crushed from things falling on him in the burning house than dying from being tasered. (I have researched tazers for my criminal justice classes, so I am well aware of how "often" they have killed.)

    And they had no way to know whether the child was alive or not. That is the point. Too many people are thinking of this from just the aftermath instead of what the decision is in that moment, not knowing whether the child is alive or dead or anything else we do know now. Hindsight is 20/20.

    It was too dangerous to enter at that moment. They were trying to get the fire more contained. Plus, they had no idea where to look for the child, yet they would have known exactly where the father was had it made it through the door. Plus, there is no telling what he might have done had he started on fire himself (became a "screaming alpha"). A person who is on fire can start to panic and spread the fire other places, including outside the house.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  2. #152
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Running into a burning building is going to make the situation worse?
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It absolutely could.
    I'm going to get an infraction for this, but it will be well deserved. I only save my infractions for the truly ignorant assholes of the board and you have shown yourself to a shining example of one in this thread.

    roguenuke, you are a ****ing idiot. Running into a burning building (which in this particular case is the man's own house) to save his step-son that he dearly loves "absolutely could" (your words) make the situation worse and that's justification for handcuffing and tasing the guy? The reports show that the boy may have been saved. Whether the FD wanted to go in or not is not the situation here. If they weren't going to go in to save the boy, why would they go in to save the man, which is the basis for your stupidity. The point I and several others have been trying to make is that the man had the RIGHT to enter his OWN ****ing house to attempt to save HIS OWN step-son. HIS house is on fire and HIS step-son's life is in the balance. If the FD isn't going to risk their life to save the boy, why shouldn't the man be able to?

    Now you can spin your little moral superiority bull**** that you've been spinning all through this thread but guess what, it doesn't hold any weight with me and others. That boy died and it's a tragedy. That man will now live the rest of his life knowing that the boy could have been saved had the PD not handcuffed and tased him - 3 ****ing times! Yes, he couldn't get to the boy from where he was in the house when the fire started, but that doesn't mean he couldn't get to him from the other side of the house. The police have no right to "save us from ourselves". If the guy had a gun and was a threat to others they would absolutely have that right, but he was not a danger to others, only to himself and only to save his own step-son.

    You have no "moral authority" over me or anyone else in this thread. And judging by your own words in this very thread, I'm going to go out on a very big limb and say that you don't have any kids and you've never loved someone so much that you would do anything, and I mean ANYTHING, to protect and save them, even if it means giving up your life in an attempt to do so. You call it an "emotional state", the rest of the world calls in unconditional love. To risk your life to save that of someone you love is noble, a sign of love, not an "emotional state". Why you can't get that only leads to one conclusion - you have no idea what love really is.

    So instead of telling us all how wrong we are, how wrong the father was and how right the PD were, we don't really give a **** what you think because you couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    This is why the world is goung to be so much worse off if the Libbos are running the show.
    Stop being an asshole apdst. Not everything is a liberal-conservative thing and even bringing this up in this thread is a dirtbag move. This story has nothing to do with politics, not even remotely, and yet here you are being a douchebag because you are too stupid to know better. STOP being a douchebag for crying out loud! There's a time to attack the "evil libbos" and there's a time to leave it out of the conversation. This thread is a perfect example of when to leave it out of the conversation. Maybe you're too stupid to know better or maybe you have no impulse control or maybe a little bit of both, but it's getting tiring and old. You are a partisan hack and you are just as bad if not worse than some of the liberal partisan hacks we have here at DP. You brought up the "libbos" more than 100 posts after the OP when no one mentioned politics in the slightest. This story is not a political story, it's a tragedy that has absolutely nothing to do with politics. I'm so sick of you doing this constantly, it only makes you look pathetic.

    I'm reporting myself for this post and I accept the points I will receive. When I see the utter stupidity that I've seen from a poster (or two), I can only take so much. What I said needed to be said and it's done.
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAkston View Post
    If I want to risk my own life to save the life of my son or stepson, that's my decision. The police overstepped here big time.
    Then do it BEFORE police arrive. Police are charged with preventing suicides too.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Then do it BEFORE police arrive. Police are charged with preventing suicides too.
    And again, he could have saved the boy and gotten out himself. Had he been holding a gun to his head, that would be a different issue entirely. They prevented him from trying to save the life of the one he loved. And it's not against the law to commit suicide, to use your illogical argument against you, so how could the police be "charged with" such a thing?
    Welfare (Food Stamps, WIC, etc...) are not entitlements. They are taxpayer funded handouts and shouldn't be called entitlements at all. Social Security and Veteran's benefits are 'Entitlements' because the people receiving them are entitled to them. They were earned and paid for by the recipients.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAkston View Post
    And again, he could have saved the boy and gotten out himself. Had he been holding a gun to his head, that would be a different issue entirely. They prevented him from trying to save the life of the one he loved. And it's not against the law to commit suicide, to use your illogical argument against you, so how could the police be "charged with" such a thing?
    Now you're denying that police attempt to stop suicides? What's next? Police assisted suicide? How could you know that the boy was not already dead anyway?

  6. #156
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Now your denying that police attempt to stop suicides? What's next? Police assisted suicide? How could you know that the boy was not already dead anyway?
    Well, he was alive when they pulled him out, so there's that.

    I'm not saying that police don't stop suicide attempts, I'm saying that they don't have the right to do so as suicide is not a crime. They are tasked with stopping crime, not stopping something that isn't a crime. Please do try to keep up.
    Welfare (Food Stamps, WIC, etc...) are not entitlements. They are taxpayer funded handouts and shouldn't be called entitlements at all. Social Security and Veteran's benefits are 'Entitlements' because the people receiving them are entitled to them. They were earned and paid for by the recipients.

  7. #157
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAkston View Post
    I'm going to get an infraction for this, but it will be well deserved. I only save my infractions for the truly ignorant assholes of the board and you have shown yourself to a shining example of one in this thread.

    roguenuke, you are a ****ing idiot. Running into a burning building (which in this particular case is the man's own house) to save his step-son that he dearly loves "absolutely could" (your words) make the situation worse and that's justification for handcuffing and tasing the guy? The reports show that the boy may have been saved. Whether the FD wanted to go in or not is not the situation here. If they weren't going to go in to save the boy, why would they go in to save the man, which is the basis for your stupidity. The point I and several others have been trying to make is that the man had the RIGHT to enter his OWN ****ing house to attempt to save HIS OWN step-son. HIS house is on fire and HIS step-son's life is in the balance. If the FD isn't going to risk their life to save the boy, why shouldn't the man be able to?

    Now you can spin your little moral superiority bull**** that you've been spinning all through this thread but guess what, it doesn't hold any weight with me and others. That boy died and it's a tragedy. That man will now live the rest of his life knowing that the boy could have been saved had the PD not handcuffed and tased him - 3 ****ing times! Yes, he couldn't get to the boy from where he was in the house when the fire started, but that doesn't mean he couldn't get to him from the other side of the house. The police have no right to "save us from ourselves". If the guy had a gun and was a threat to others they would absolutely have that right, but he was not a danger to others, only to himself and only to save his own step-son.

    You have no "moral authority" over me or anyone else in this thread. And judging by your own words in this very thread, I'm going to go out on a very big limb and say that you don't have any kids and you've never loved someone so much that you would do anything, and I mean ANYTHING, to protect and save them, even if it means giving up your life in an attempt to do so. You call it an "emotional state", the rest of the world calls in unconditional love. To risk your life to save that of someone you love is noble, a sign of love, not an "emotional state". Why you can't get that only leads to one conclusion - you have no idea what love really is.

    So instead of telling us all how wrong we are, how wrong the father was and how right the PD were, we don't really give a **** what you think because you couldn't be more wrong if you tried.
    Although yes the man was wrong for running into the home in a logical sense, I've never said his reaction was wrong. It is actually completely understandable, and something I have said several times I would likely do myself (in that particular situation). In fact, the only actions I see as wrong in this situation is the family not waiting and letting their grief die before acting out on this supposed injustice they believe happened. If nothing comes of this, it really isn't a big deal at all. It is simply media sensationalizing on grief stricken families and once again using such a situation to demonize police and/or their use of tazers.

    But those who can't understand that yes, people react irrationally and that is not a good thing when they are under emotional distress and that it is absolutely the responsibility of emergency personnel and police to prevent people from acting on their emotional reactions that could put them or their loved ones or others in danger, as in this case, are wrong. You and others should be able to think more rationally about this. I understand this is an emotional topic for many. But that is also why many police and other emergency personnel must be trained to put aside their emotions for situations so they can make logical, reasonable decisions based on the welfare of everyone.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAkston View Post
    Well, he was alive when they pulled him out, so there's that.

    I'm not saying that police don't stop suicide attempts, I'm saying that they don't have the right to do so as suicide is not a crime. They are tasked with stopping crime, not stopping something that isn't a crime. Please do try to keep up.
    He was breathing (according to the father) when they pulled him out. Which actually goes worse for the father because the father trying to get in could have been enough of a distraction to prevent earlier entry. But there is also no guarantee that the boy would have lived anyway had the father made it in. And there is no evidence at all that the father would have been more likely to save his son, even if he had made it into the house. Chances in fact are much bigger that the father would have died or been severely injured trying, causing more grief for this family, but still failed.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAkston View Post
    I'm going to get an infraction for this, but it will be well deserved. I only save my infractions for the truly ignorant assholes of the board and you have shown yourself to a shining example of one in this thread.

    roguenuke, you are a ****ing idiot. Running into a burning building (which in this particular case is the man's own house) to save his step-son that he dearly loves "absolutely could" (your words) make the situation worse and that's justification for handcuffing and tasing the guy? The reports show that the boy may have been saved. Whether the FD wanted to go in or not is not the situation here. If they weren't going to go in to save the boy, why would they go in to save the man, which is the basis for your stupidity. The point I and several others have been trying to make is that the man had the RIGHT to enter his OWN ****ing house to attempt to save HIS OWN step-son. HIS house is on fire and HIS step-son's life is in the balance. If the FD isn't going to risk their life to save the boy, why shouldn't the man be able to?

    Now you can spin your little moral superiority bull**** that you've been spinning all through this thread but guess what, it doesn't hold any weight with me and others. That boy died and it's a tragedy. That man will now live the rest of his life knowing that the boy could have been saved had the PD not handcuffed and tased him - 3 ****ing times! Yes, he couldn't get to the boy from where he was in the house when the fire started, but that doesn't mean he couldn't get to him from the other side of the house. The police have no right to "save us from ourselves". If the guy had a gun and was a threat to others they would absolutely have that right, but he was not a danger to others, only to himself and only to save his own step-son.

    You have no "moral authority" over me or anyone else in this thread. And judging by your own words in this very thread, I'm going to go out on a very big limb and say that you don't have any kids and you've never loved someone so much that you would do anything, and I mean ANYTHING, to protect and save them, even if it means giving up your life in an attempt to do so. You call it an "emotional state", the rest of the world calls in unconditional love. To risk your life to save that of someone you love is noble, a sign of love, not an "emotional state". Why you can't get that only leads to one conclusion - you have no idea what love really is.

    So instead of telling us all how wrong we are, how wrong the father was and how right the PD were, we don't really give a **** what you think because you couldn't be more wrong if you tried.



    Stop being an asshole apdst. Not everything is a liberal-conservative thing and even bringing this up in this thread is a dirtbag move. This story has nothing to do with politics, not even remotely, and yet here you are being a douchebag because you are too stupid to know better. STOP being a douchebag for crying out loud! There's a time to attack the "evil libbos" and there's a time to leave it out of the conversation. This thread is a perfect example of when to leave it out of the conversation. Maybe you're too stupid to know better or maybe you have no impulse control or maybe a little bit of both, but it's getting tiring and old. You are a partisan hack and you are just as bad if not worse than some of the liberal partisan hacks we have here at DP. You brought up the "libbos" more than 100 posts after the OP when no one mentioned politics in the slightest. This story is not a political story, it's a tragedy that has absolutely nothing to do with politics. I'm so sick of you doing this constantly, it only makes you look pathetic.

    I'm reporting myself for this post and I accept the points I will receive. When I see the utter stupidity that I've seen from a poster (or two), I can only take so much. What I said needed to be said and it's done.
    I never said everything is "Liberal/Conservative". So, use your infractions more wisely in the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    One MIGHT suggest that if you are on the same side on EVERY ISSUE...that you might be...not right...
    I would agree...good thing I don't do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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