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Thread: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

  1. #101
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Had they found the boy's body in his bed, it easier to conclude he could not have been saved, that it too late. But finding that the boy had awoken, left his bed and was laying at the door at the living will be the most haunting of all for that step father, mother etc. The little boy was trying to escape. He had collapsed to the gases, but then has fallen to the lowest - and safest - point from both heat and toxic gases - apparently the floor on the 1st floor - and being at the living room door mean it likely the next door was the front door. No one came for him.

    With the fact of where the little boy's body was found, there is NO way to know whether or not the step father could have saved him. None. The cause of that boy's death, ultimately, may have been caused by the police tasering the step-father. We'll never know. Nor will he. I have no suspect he and the mother, probably the bio-father too, will hate those officers as much hate as there can be the rest of their lives - and will claim it was those two officers, not the fire, that killed their son.
    Or the father could have easily have stepped on the son or even caused burning debris from the house to fall on him. The man was not trained. He had no business going into the house.

    The fire killed the child, not the police or any other people there. It is a tragedy but you cannot say any differently. You have no idea if the child might have been saved had the father not tried to enter the house and waited for firefighters to go in.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  2. #102
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    What does that have to do with ANYTHING??? The fire fighters had already decided they were not going to try to rescue the little boy anymore, hadn't they? Sure, EIGHT HOURS later they looked for the body. What they found learned is that they had made the WRONG decision in concluding it certain the little boy already dead. The little boy was not high in his bed. He had collapsed on the floor halfway to getting out.
    Yet the claim was made in an earlier report that the family says the boy was breathing when the firefighters pulled the child out. This means that they did in fact go into the house soon after the attempt made by the father. So yes, trying to stop the father could have hindered them enough to actually harm the rescue effort. Him in there, needing to be rescued himself, would have done further harm to it.

    That child would not have survived 8 hours in that house, so no, you are wrong. You have no knowledge of the actual events. Only guesses, and it doesn't even sound as if they are informed.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #103
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAkston View Post
    He might have saved the boy. We'll never know - because of the actions of the police. I buried my son 2 1/2 years ago. I'd rather die in a fire 1,000 times than bury my son once. Had I been in the position to save him, there's nothing I wouldn't have done to try. This man will live with this for the rest of his life.

    I realize this was a judgement call on behalf of the police officer, but it was the wrong call from where I sit.
    That's hard. No parent should have to bury their own child. It's suppose to be the other way around.

    The issue to the fire fighters was that of risking themselves to try to save "someone." To the step-father it was the risk to himself of trying to save his son. Those are not the same decision-risk factors. A fire fighter doesn't have to risk his/her life to save someone. However, it is a parent's duty to try to save their child even at the parent's own risk. That's how I see it anyway.

  4. #104
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Yet the claim was made in an earlier report that the family says the boy was breathing when the firefighters pulled the child out. This means that they did in fact go into the house soon after the attempt made by the father. So yes, trying to stop the father could have hindered them enough to actually harm the rescue effort. Him in there, needing to be rescued himself, would have done further harm to it.

    That child would not have survived 8 hours in that house, so no, you are wrong. You have no knowledge of the actual events. Only guesses, and it doesn't even sound as if they are informed.
    Please link to the boy was pulled out breathing. Obviously that it vitally relevant - either way.

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Please link to the boy was pulled out breathing. Obviously that it vitally relevant - either way.
    Missouri dad tasered while trying to save son from burning home - NY Daily News

    Ryan said his son was still breathing when officials carried him out of the house, which means that for the last few moments of Riely's life, his dad was sitting in a jail cell.

    Read more: Missouri dad tasered while trying to save son from burning home - NY Daily News
    Which means if they hadn't been dealing with him, perhaps, they could have saved the child instead. Yes, of course others see it as well he might have saved him, but the likelihood of an untrained person running into a dark, extremely hot house in barefeet and pajamas where he can't see anything (because you cannot see through smoke like that) and being able to find his son, particularly since the son was likely on the floor, not where the man would have expected him to be, is small. He likely would have harmed the child more by accident.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #106
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Doesn't mean those people shouldn't be stopped for attempting to do something foolish that could put them or others in more danger.

    That father was not trained to go into a burning building (not from any of the information we have on him). He wouldn't know what would cause more problems in the rescue of his son by running into burning house. Firefighters do. He would in fact not even know where his son was, since he probably would have went straight to the bed, although it seems the son may have made it to the floor. Not being able to see the child on the floor, it is very likely that the father could have stepped on him, causing further injuries, possibly even ones that ended up taking his life before the fire or smoke got a chance. And then he could have become a casualty himself, and the firefighters would have to concentrate on trying to save both of them rather than just the boy.
    What if we stipulate that he only puts himself in danger? That no first responder will try to save him?
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Missouri dad tasered while trying to save son from burning home - NY Daily News



    Which means if they hadn't been dealing with him, perhaps, they could have saved the child instead. Yes, of course others see it as well he might have saved him, but the likelihood of an untrained person running into a dark, extremely hot house in barefeet and pajamas where he can't see anything (because you cannot see through smoke like that) and being able to find his son, particularly since the son was likely on the floor, not where the man would have expected him to be, is small. He likely would have harmed the child more by accident.
    Then I would need to see a timeline of actual events. Yes, that definitely could change my view of this. Thanks for pointing that out.

  8. #108
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    What if we stipulate that he only puts himself in danger? That no first responder will try to save him?
    That can't work. Who makes that decision? When? And what about those others that want to make the same decision to save him and the boy, and then the line begins? It simply isn't feasible.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #109
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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    That can't work. Who makes that decision? When? And what about those others that want to make the same decision to save him and the boy, and then the line begins? It simply isn't feasible.
    Who makes which decision?

    It is certainly workable. "If you choose to go in there against our advice you are on your own" is all it takes.

    Same with any others.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Who makes which decision?

    It is certainly workable. "If you choose to go in there against our advice you are on your own" is all it takes.

    Same with any others.
    Who decides that this a person who is actually telling them "don't go after me" and not just someone they need to save? Plus, what happens if one or multiple of those people become "Screaming Alphas" and start spreading the fire, putting others in danger? It simply would not work. It isn't feasible. Most people are not going to accept that it is okay to allow an emotionally distraught person to make that decision for themself.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 11-09-13 at 02:24 PM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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