Page 10 of 27 FirstFirst ... 8910111220 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 265

Thread: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

  1. #91
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Suicide requires an intention to end ones life. Performing an act that might well lead to ones death is not necessarily suicide.
    Doesn't mean those people shouldn't be stopped for attempting to do something foolish that could put them or others in more danger.

    That father was not trained to go into a burning building (not from any of the information we have on him). He wouldn't know what would cause more problems in the rescue of his son by running into burning house. Firefighters do. He would in fact not even know where his son was, since he probably would have went straight to the bed, although it seems the son may have made it to the floor. Not being able to see the child on the floor, it is very likely that the father could have stepped on him, causing further injuries, possibly even ones that ended up taking his life before the fire or smoke got a chance. And then he could have become a casualty himself, and the firefighters would have to concentrate on trying to save both of them rather than just the boy.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #92
    Sage
    Gaius46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:09 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,443

    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Experience tells us that it was too risky and that his attempt could cause more problems for those who are actually trained to go in and fight the fires and save people.
    Perhaps but again it's no ones decision but the person who's risking their neck.

    I understand the issue of first responders that may be put at risk because of a legal obligation to save the guy but I have no trouble with removing that obligation in cases like this and not allowing the first responders to be sued. That is I think the way it should be.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

  3. #93
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    12-03-17 @ 03:32 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,568
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    They tried to stop him, he became combative and got away from them. How many cops do you think were on the scene? I only know of two that tasered him. In such a situation, they would definitely be trying not to hurt the guy, and physical restraints can hurt him when he is combative, not to mention hurting the officers (potentially). They had every reason to stop him and use a taser to do it. He was interfering in combating the fire and potentially saving his son by trying to do it himself.
    How the hell would his attempting to save the boy have interfered with "combating the fire?" That's juts a slogan.

    Besides, they obviously were NOT combating the fire. They were containing it. The article says it took EIGHT HOURS! for them to put out the fire. EIGHT HOURS?!?!

    PROFESSIONAL fire fighters know what that means. That is typical volunteer and amateur fire fighting.

    IF professional fire fighters think lives are at stake and/or are trying to save as much property and structure as possible, they attack the fire - literally. They don't just spray water on the building and thru windows. They charge the fire. They attack it - literally. They GO INSIDE and FIGHT the fire at it's base.

    A house fire is the least dangerous of structural fires, because once the power and electricity off they are generally only fighting burning wood and the heat, smoke and gas of it, with little risk of explosion and otherwise toxic or corrosive gases, plus drywalling limiting the fire.

    When our BIG warehouse burned up a couple months ago, I literally urged them to "just let it burn" because of the huge collection of chemicals within it. Their response? "That's not what we do." They had the fire out in less than 30 minutes - and that a far, far more challenging structure and fire than an ordinary house fire.

    Regardless, his running into the burning house poised NO danger to fire fighters nor in any way would have "interfered" with the fire fighters, since they already had decided they weren't going in the house for anyone- so wouldn't have gone in after him - obviously - since they wouldn't go in for a child. Obviously, they were not fighting the fire from the inside, so it impossible he could have interfered with anything or anyone. Either the step-father would have made it in and out - or not. No interference either way.

    If there are PRO fire fighters or were so - and they stop and think of this - I think they will agree that it taking EIGHT HOURS to put out a wood frame house fire means this was less than a top notch fire fighters team and/or was not fully trained and/or equipment deficient.
    Last edited by joko104; 11-09-13 at 01:20 PM.

  4. #94
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Perhaps but again it's no ones decision but the person who's risking their neck.

    I understand the issue of first responders that may be put at risk because of a legal obligation to save the guy but I have no trouble with removing that obligation in cases like this and not allowing the first responders to be sued. That is I think the way it should be.
    He isn't just risking his life though. The firefighters would also have to risk their lives to try to save him. And as someone else pointed out, where do you stop it? What if the wife/mother went in next or neighbors or other relatives to try to save those that went in? Do they not have just as much of a right according to your belief to go in as well? And at what point does the firefighters/police have to save those people trapped within, risking their own lives and taking people away from actually fighting the fire itself to do these rescues that shouldn't be needed to begin with?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #95
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    How the hell would his attempting to save the boy have interfered with "combating the fire?" That's juts a slogan.

    Besides, they obviously were NOT combating the fire. They were containing it. The article says it took EIGHT HOURS! for them to put out the fire. EIGHT HOURS?!?!

    PROFESSIONAL fire fighters know what that means. That is typical volunteer and amateur fire fighting.

    IF professional fire fighters think lives are at stake and/or are trying to save as much property and structure as possible, they attack the fire - literally. They don't just spray water on the building and thru windows. They charge the fire. They attack it - literally. They GO INSIDE and FIGHT the fire at it's base.

    A house fire is the least dangerous of structural fires, because once the power and electricity off they are generally only fighting burning wood and the heat, smoke and gas of it, with little risk of explosion and otherwise toxic or corrosive gases, plus drywalling limiting the fire.

    When our BIG warehouse burned up a couple months ago, I literally urged them to "just let it burn" because of the huge collection of chemicals within it. Their response? "That's not what we do." They had the fire out in less than 30 minutes - and that a far, far more challenging structure and fire than an ordinary house fire.

    Regardless, his running into the burning house poised NO danger to fire fighters nor in any way would have "interfered" with the fire fighters, since they weren't going in the house anyone so wouldn't have gone in after him - obviously - since they wouldn't go in for a child. Obviously, they were not fighting the fire from the inside, so it impossible he could have interfered with anything or anyone.

    If there are other fire fighters and they stop and think of this, I think they will agree that it taking EIGHT HOURS to put out a wood frame house fire means this was less than a top notch fire fighters team and/or was training and/or equipment deficient.
    It would take one firefighter to carry out a small boy, while it would take at least one, possibly two to carry out the guy, then another to carry the boy. That takes away people from fighting the fire and puts those additional firefighters going in to rescue people at risk.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #96
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    12-03-17 @ 03:32 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,568
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Had they found the boy's body in his bed, it easier to conclude he could not have been saved, that it too late. But finding that the boy had awoken, left his bed and was laying at the door at the living will be the most haunting of all for that step father, mother etc. The little boy was trying to escape. He had collapsed to the gases, but then has fallen to the lowest - and safest - point from both heat and toxic gases - apparently the floor on the 1st floor - and being at the living room door mean it likely the next door was the front door. No one came for him.

    With the fact of where the little boy's body was found, there is NO way to know whether or not the step father could have saved him. None. The cause of that boy's death, ultimately, may have been caused by the police tasering the step-father. We'll never know. Nor will he. I have no suspect he and the mother, probably the bio-father too, will hate those officers as much hate as there can be the rest of their lives - and will claim it was those two officers, not the fire, that killed their son.

  7. #97
    White trash on dope.
    d0gbreath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Denton, TX
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,874

    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    The step-Dad and I agree. The Police killed the little boy. Maybe he's calmed down now and has changed his mind and is thankful to the Police for stunning him and saving his life. What do y'all think?

    I know I've seen this drama acted out in an old movie (before the invention of stun-guns and tasers). The police try to stop the leading actor from going into the burning building to save someone, but he's determined and pulls off the risky rescue, with only a scratch on one cheek.

    I'm not trying to make light of a real life tragedy. My point is that police used to be able to try to stop someone, not anymore.

  8. #98
    Guru
    Morality Games's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Last Seen
    05-24-16 @ 10:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    3,733

    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAkston View Post
    He might have saved the boy. We'll never know - because of the actions of the police. I buried my son 2 1/2 years ago. I'd rather die in a fire 1,000 times than bury my son once. Had I been in the position to save him, there's nothing I wouldn't have done to try. This man will live with this for the rest of his life.

    I realize this was a judgement call on behalf of the police officer, but it was the wrong call from where I sit.
    I'm inclined to agree, but I wasn't there. I would have supported the police officer's actions if the fire was so bad there was no chance the father could save the boy. If it was anything less than that, the police officer is at fault.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

  9. #99
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    12-03-17 @ 03:32 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,568
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Perhaps but again it's no ones decision but the person who's risking their neck.

    I understand the issue of first responders that may be put at risk because of a legal obligation to save the guy but I have no trouble with removing that obligation in cases like this and not allowing the first responders to be sued. That is I think the way it should be.
    NO ONE had any legal obligation to taser him or stop him, nor any legal obligation to try to save the boy or anyone else for that matter.

  10. #100
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    12-03-17 @ 03:32 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,568
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Missouri man trying to save stepson from fire hit with stun gun by police

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It would take one firefighter to carry out a small boy, while it would take at least one, possibly two to carry out the guy, then another to carry the boy. That takes away people from fighting the fire and puts those additional firefighters going in to rescue people at risk.
    What does that have to do with ANYTHING??? The fire fighters had already decided they were not going to try to rescue the little boy anymore, hadn't they? Sure, EIGHT HOURS later they looked for the body. What they found learned is that they had made the WRONG decision in concluding it certain the little boy already dead. The little boy was not high in his bed. He had collapsed on the floor halfway to getting out.

Page 10 of 27 FirstFirst ... 8910111220 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •