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America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

Those American soldiers who were stabbed in the back while they were still on the battlefields of Vietnam have weighed the evidence and have found Jane (Hanoi) Fonda guilty of providing aid and comfort to the enemy of the United States during war time.

Anyone who defends this leftist traitor is guilty of aiding and abetting an enemy of the United States.

There was no evidence, just incorrect rumors.

If there was truly evidence, then she would have been charged legally.

Politicians and military leadership screwed servicemen a lot more than anyone else.
 
She did much more then that my left wing friend.

INDEED!!! She betrayed the trust of POW's and most likely caused the death of several. She deserves to die by firing squad... with no blindfold.
 
INDEED!!! She betrayed the trust of POW's and most likely caused the death of several. She deserves to die by firing squad... with no blindfold.

Prove what deaths she caused.

Use verifiable evidence, not rumors or opinion.
 
I dont go too far with that, treason charges are silly. But I still dont like her.
Prove what deaths she caused.

Use verifiable evidence, not rumors or opinion.
 
I dont go too far with that, treason charges are silly. But I still dont like her.

Agreed- I can't stand her at all.

She acted like the typical rich moron selfish child of a celebrity.
 
Pretending your spin to be true

Pretending my spin to be true? You do understand that the cold war wasn't ideological right? The ideological battle of the USSR and the USA is the Disney version they sell the weak minded. Everyone else understands that it was a war to establish spheres of economic influence.

, just what was our economic interests that led to our involvement in this war?

Maintaining - favorable to the US - trade with the region, surrounding Japan with pro-West allies in the case of war with Russia/China. The belief that we went to fight for freedom is so far removed to how things in the real world work it's absolutely ridiculous people still buy into the jingoist Eisenhower-Kennedy-Nixon rhetoric.
 
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Those American soldiers who were stabbed in the back while they were still on the battlefields of Vietnam have weighed the evidence and have found Jane (Hanoi) Fonda guilty of providing aid and comfort to the enemy of the United States during war time.

Anyone who defends this leftist traitor is guilty of aiding and abetting an enemy of the United States.

Were those American soldiers "stabbed in the back" lawyers working in courts determining treason? I have zero interest in conjecture or opinions of laymen on this matter.

If you tell me that certain people found her behavior extremely distasteful I'd say, "Well, can't argue with that." But once you tell me they've "found her guilty of providing aid and comfort to the enemy" you've entered legal territory.
 
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The testimony of surviving POW's.
Look it up.

Already did, and posted it.
Obviously, you got nothing.
You lose.

Despite the claims of hundreds of Vietnam veterans who maintain they were "there" and affirm that accounts like the "smuggled Social Security number betrayal" are true because they supposedly witnessed them, the fact is that Fonda met only seven American POWs while in North Vietnam: Edison Miller, Walter Wilber, James Padgett, David Wesley Hoffman, Kenneth James Fraser, William G. Byrns, and Edward Elias. None of those men reported her sabotaging their attempts to slip her information about themselves, and anyone other than those seven men who asserts he was "there" and witnessed such a scene is simply not telling the truth.

Some of the POWs who actually did meet with Jane Fonda, such as Edison Miller, have spoken out on the record over the years to disclaim the apocryphal stories about her
"The whole [e-mail] story about Jane Fonda is just malarkey," said Edison Miller, 73, of California, a former Marine Corps pilot held more than five years. Miller was among seven POWs who met with Fonda in Hanoi. He said he didn't recall her asking any questions other than about their names, if that. He said that he passed her no piece of paper, and that to his knowledge, no other POW in the group did, despite the e-mail's claims.
Col. Larry Carrigan, the U.S. serviceman whose name is invoked in the e-mailed reproduced at the head of this article, has affirmed that he neither claimed nor experienced any of what has been attributed to him, and that he never even met Jane Fonda:
"It's a figment of somebody's imagination." said Ret. Col. Larry Carrigan, one of the servicemen mentioned in the 'slips of paper' incident. Carrigan was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967 and did spend time in a POW camp. He has no idea why the story was attributed to him, saying, "I never met Jane Fonda." In 2005, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reported that Carrigan "is so tired of having to repeat that he wasn't beaten after Fonda's visit and that there were no beating deaths at that time that he won't talk to the media anymore."
The tale about a defiant serviceman who spit at Jane Fonda and was severely beaten as a result is often attributed to Air Force pilot Jerry Driscoll. He has also repeatedly stated on the record that it did not originate with him:
Driscoll said he never met Fonda, as the e-mail claims — and therefore, never spit on her and didn't suffer permanent double vision from a subsequent beating. "Totally false. It did not happen," Driscoll said.

"I don't know who came up with [my] name. The trouble that individual has caused me!" he said, referring to the time he has spent repeatedly denying the persistent myth.
Mike McGrath, President of NAM-POWs, has also stepped forward to disclaim the Internet-circulated rumors about Jane Fonda and American POWs:
Please excuse the generic response, but I have been swamped with so many e-mails on the subject of the Jane Fonda article (Carrigan, Driscoll, strips of paper, torture and deaths of POWs, etc.) that I have to resort to this pre-scripted rebuttal. The truth is that most of this never happened. This is a hoax story placed on the internet by unknown Fonda haters. No one knows who initiated the story. Please assist by not propagating the story. Fonda did enough bad things to assure her a correct place in the garbage dumps of history. We don't want to be party to false stories, which could be used as an excuse that her real actions didn't really happen either. I have spoken with all the parties named: Carrigan, Driscoll, et al. They all state that this particular internet story is a hoax and they wish to disassociate their names from the false story.

Read more at snopes.com: Jane Fonda and American POWs in North Vietnam
 
You mean like the BS right wing line of spin that states they attacked a US warship?

LOL. That's so far from the truth it is down right slapstick.
 
I protested against the war in Viet Nam back in the day, but it was always from the standpoint of getting our boys home so not to see so many die. What Jane did went well beyond that, and believe me, she was not all that popular for doing so among those of us whose views were more responsible and respectful. As soon as a person actually crosses over to support the other side, they have lost all credibility.

I'm very much reminded of many discussions these days involving Islamists. The degree of apologia among some is so determined that they are little more than modern day Hannoi Janes. Tehran Janes, maybe?

It is quite possible to oppose certain actions without crossing that line into joining the other side. The old enemy of one's enemy is one's friend fallacy is so strong with some, however, that they are incapable of such distinction.
 
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Nice dodge, but seriously if defending someone that you've accused of treason makes one a traitor as well than you've basically ended several liberties in your attempt to defend them. Specifically you've ended freedom of speech, because having a certain opinion equates to treason according to you, and you've ended the right to representation in court since if she had a defense attonery he'd be a traitor as well.

None of that has to do with Obama, that's your opinion.

I'm just one of tens of millions if not hundreds of millions back then who have accused Hanoi Jane of treason.

If I remember correctly back during the 70's the left's defense was that Hanoi Jane couldn't be tried for treason because the Vietnam war wasn't a "declared war." The United States has fought over a hundred wars that weren't declared wars by Congress.

Your argument and the left's argument would be if a soldier were to fall asleep while on the perimeter in combat in Vietnam or even Afghanistan today that the soldier couldn't face the death penalty under Article 113 of the UCMJ because neither wars were declared wars. Bull ####.

Re: Obama.

We have less personal freedoms in America today than we had in 2008.
 
I'm just one of tens of millions if not hundreds of millions back then who have accused Hanoi Jane of treason.

If I remember correctly back during the 70's the left's defense was that Hanoi Jane couldn't be tried for treason because the Vietnam war wasn't a "declared war." The United States has fought over a hundred wars that weren't declared wars by Congress.

Your argument and the left's argument would be if a soldier were to fall asleep while on the perimeter in combat in Vietnam or even Afghanistan today that the soldier couldn't face the death penalty under Article 113 of the UCMJ because neither wars were declared wars. Bull ####.

Re: Obama.

We have less personal freedoms in America today than we had in 2008.

If I remember right APA, Nixon himself choose not to prosecute Fonda although many of his aides wanted him to. He, Nixon didn't want all the publicity and demonstrations that a treason trial would have brought while he was in serious negotiation with the North Vietnamese. That was from one of his books he wrote.
 
I am with Navy Pride on this. I will never forgive her for what she did in Viet Nam.

That being said, my thoughts are in direct conflict with Christian theology and the teachings of the Catholic Church. As is his.

Consider this, the Apostle Paul, (formally known as Saul,) done things far worse than anything Hanoi Jane could ever do. Yet, upon his repentance, he became on of the most admired apostles in Christianity.

"Jane Fonda realizes that she made a serious mistake in 1972 when she had a little sing-along with North Vietnamese soldiers while sitting on an anti-aircraft gun that may have shot down some of our American boys. According to an April 3 article on Newsmax, Jane Fonda admitted on the Oprah Winfrey Network (OWN) that she will go to her grave with this “unforgivable mistake.” <snip> 'Hanoi Jane' Fonda says she will go to her grave with her 'unforgivable mistake' - Knoxville Politics | Examiner.com

Forgiving her would be the Christian thing to do. Far be it from me or Mr. Pride to do the Christian thing.
 
It would be the Christian thing to do. I guess I need work.
I am with Navy Pride on this. I will never forgive her for what she did in Viet Nam.

That being said, my thoughts are in direct conflict with Christian theology and the teachings of the Catholic Church. As is his.

Consider this, the Apostle Paul, (formally known as Saul,) done things far worse than anything Hanoi Jane could ever do. Yet, upon his repentance, he became on of the most admired apostles in Christianity.

"Jane Fonda realizes that she made a serious mistake in 1972 when she had a little sing-along with North Vietnamese soldiers while sitting on an anti-aircraft gun that may have shot down some of our American boys. According to an April 3 article on Newsmax, Jane Fonda admitted on the Oprah Winfrey Network (OWN) that she will go to her grave with this “unforgivable mistake.” <snip> 'Hanoi Jane' Fonda says she will go to her grave with her 'unforgivable mistake' - Knoxville Politics | Examiner.com

Forgiving her would be the Christian thing to do. Far be it from me or Mr. Pride to do the Christian thing.
 
There was no evidence, just incorrect rumors.

If there was truly evidence, then she would have been charged legally.

Politicians and military leadership screwed servicemen a lot more than anyone else.

So that wasn't Hanoi Jane broadcasting on radio from Hanoi ?
That wasn't Hanoi Jane sitting on an A/A gun in Hanoi when it was against the law for American citizens to travel to Communist North Vietnam ?
That wasn't Hanoi Jane who supported communism back when the agenda of American communist and the radical left to violently overthrow the U.S. government ?
So that wasn't Hanoi Jane who would tell American soldiers to desert while in combat ?
So that wasn't Hanoi Jane who was associated with the VVAW, the same organization who planned to attack Congress and kill as many members of Congress.
That wasn't Hanoi Jane who married Tom Hayden ?

During the past 4 1/2 years over half of all American adults at one time or another have been labeled by the left as being racist. Where's the evidence ?
 
It would be the Christian thing to do. I guess I need work.


Well, there are some folks in this world that I don't want to find forgiveness in their hearts. I want them to remain bitter and angry.

And when they are standing at St. Peter's gate, they will be judged as they judged. They will be offered the same forgiveness they afforded others.

Then they will quickly be dispatched to hell.

That is, if you actually believe in all that Jesus and God stuff, (instead of just giving lip service about it..... LOL!)

We all need some work Mak2.
 
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I'm just one of tens of millions if not hundreds of millions

HUNDREDS of millions?

You may wish to avail yourself of some basic population statistics for America in the early seventies.
 
Were those American soldiers "stabbed in the back" lawyers working in courts determining treason? I have zero interest in conjecture or opinions of laymen on this matter.

If you tell me that certain people found her behavior extremely distasteful I'd say, "Well, can't argue with that." But once you tell me they've "found her guilty of providing aid and comfort to the enemy" you've entered legal territory.

An American Traitor: Guilty As Charged

>" For three decades Jane Fonda obfuscated, distorted and lied about virtually everything connected with her wartime trip to North Vietnam: her motive, her acts, her intent, and her contribution to the Communists’ war effort. With the aid of clever handlers, she so successfully suppressed and spun her conduct in Hanoi that many Americans didn’t know what she had done there, and, more important, the legal significance.

Three years ago, our book, “Aid and Comfort”: Jane Fonda in North Vietnam (McFarland & Co.), laid bare the incontrovertible facts, applied the American law of treason to them —and proved, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Jane Fonda should have been indicted for (and would have been convicted of) treason..."<

FrontPage Magazine - An American Traitor: Guilty As Charged

HOW JANE FONDA SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF TREASON

>" A group Senators and U.S. Congressman pleaded passionately with Brigadier General Robinson Risner, USAF. It was summer 1973, just a few months after our POWs were released from North Vietnam. They told him that he would be the key witness in Congressional hearings to bring the charge of Treason against Jane Fonda. Her famous visit to North Vietnam while her country was at war caused great harm to American soldiers in the field bringing aid, abetting and encouragement to the enemy. They fought with even more confidence that the American will was waning…….and caused even more American casualties. Many of those casualties would have their names engraved on the Vietnam Memorial "Wall" a few years later. She caused U.S. Prisoners of War, held in Hanoi, to suffer more torture and torment and would surely be convicted of Treason, as was "Tokyo Rose," an American citizen, during WWII. General Risner, who was one of the highest ranking POWs, held captive for seven years, three of those in solitary confinement, would be the final and most important witness to make the charges of Treason really hold. No matter how hard they attempted to convince General Risner, he held firm. He would not testify. Reluctantly, the Congressional hearings, scheduled for the charge of treason against Jane Fonda, were canceled..."<

HOW JANE FONDA SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF TREASON - THR
 
If I remember right APA, Nixon himself choose not to prosecute Fonda although many of his aides wanted him to. He, Nixon didn't want all the publicity and demonstrations that a treason trial would have brought while he was in serious negotiation with the North Vietnamese. That was from one of his books he wrote.

That's what I have read and heard.
 
The person most responsible for unnecessary deaths in Viet Nam is Richard Nixon. Nixon may have sabotaged the 1968 Paris Peace talks to help Nixon win the election that year. After Nixon was elected they kept the war going as long as they could manage before they saw that nearly the whole country wanted us out of Viet Nam. Nothing was gained by allowing the war go on for so long.

"...The most arresting chapter gives us conclusive reason to believe that Nixon and his associates -- especially Attorney General John Mitchell and Vice President Spiro Agnew -- consciously sabotaged the Vietnam peace negotiations in Paris in the fall of 1968. Elements of this story have surfaced before, in books by, among others, Clark Clifford and Richard Holbrooke, Seymour Hersh and William Bundy. But this is the most convincing account to have appeared so far, relying as it does on wiretaps released to Summers by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Many senior Democrats knew this ghastly secret but kept it to themselves, if only because L.B.J. had lawfully if shamefacedly bugged Nixon and and his co-conspirators, as well as the South Vietnamese Embassy. (The FBI intercept cables are reproduced here.)

Using a series of extremist and shady intermediaries, the Nixon campaign covertly assured the South Vietnamese generals that if they boycotted President Lyndon B. Johnson's dearly bought conference (which they ultimately did on the very eve of the election) they would get a more sympathetic administration. Irony is too feeble a word for what they actually got: a losing war, protracted for four years and concluded -- with much additional humiliation -- on the same terms that Johnson and Hubert Humphrey had been offering in 1968. Summers has spoken to all the surviving participants, including the dramatic go-between figure of Anna Chennault, who now regards even herself as one of those betrayed by this foul deal. Almost half the names on that wall in Washington are inscribed with a date after Nixon and Kissinger took office. We still cringe from counting the number of Vietnamese, Laotians and Cambodians. Nixon's illegal and surreptitious conduct not only prolonged an awful war but also corrupted and subverted a crucial presidential election: the combination must make it the most wicked action in American history. "
Let Me Say This About That a review of THE ARROGANCE OF POWER The Secret World of Richard Nixon By Anthony Summers with Robbyn Swan.
 
I'm just one of tens of millions if not hundreds of millions back then who have accused Hanoi Jane of treason.

If I remember correctly back during the 70's the left's defense was that Hanoi Jane couldn't be tried for treason because the Vietnam war wasn't a "declared war." The United States has fought over a hundred wars that weren't declared wars by Congress.

Your argument and the left's argument would be if a soldier were to fall asleep while on the perimeter in combat in Vietnam or even Afghanistan today that the soldier couldn't face the death penalty under Article 113 of the UCMJ because neither wars were declared wars. Bull ####.

Re: Obama.

We have less personal freedoms in America today than we had in 2008.

That's not the argument I'm making, you just made that up.

Also why are you bringing Obama up, we're talking about your opinion that this woman shouldn't have the rights granted to every American and ironically done in the name of protecting those rights.

So queer.
 
:hitsfan:
That's not the argument I'm making, you just made that up.

Also why are you bringing Obama up, we're talking about your opinion that this woman shouldn't have the rights granted to every American and ironically done in the name of protecting those rights.

So queer.
 
That's not the argument I'm making, you just made that up.

Also why are you bringing Obama up, we're talking about your opinion that this woman shouldn't have the rights granted to every American and ironically done in the name of protecting those rights.

So queer.

Wasn't it you who brought up freedoms and was first to use Obama's name ?

But there is a connection to Obama and Tom Hayden as there's a connection to Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden.
 
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