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Thread: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Pretending your spin to be true
    Pretending my spin to be true? You do understand that the cold war wasn't ideological right? The ideological battle of the USSR and the USA is the Disney version they sell the weak minded. Everyone else understands that it was a war to establish spheres of economic influence.

    , just what was our economic interests that led to our involvement in this war?
    Maintaining - favorable to the US - trade with the region, surrounding Japan with pro-West allies in the case of war with Russia/China. The belief that we went to fight for freedom is so far removed to how things in the real world work it's absolutely ridiculous people still buy into the jingoist Eisenhower-Kennedy-Nixon rhetoric.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 11-08-13 at 10:39 AM.
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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Those American soldiers who were stabbed in the back while they were still on the battlefields of Vietnam have weighed the evidence and have found Jane (Hanoi) Fonda guilty of providing aid and comfort to the enemy of the United States during war time.

    Anyone who defends this leftist traitor is guilty of aiding and abetting an enemy of the United States.
    Were those American soldiers "stabbed in the back" lawyers working in courts determining treason? I have zero interest in conjecture or opinions of laymen on this matter.

    If you tell me that certain people found her behavior extremely distasteful I'd say, "Well, can't argue with that." But once you tell me they've "found her guilty of providing aid and comfort to the enemy" you've entered legal territory.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 11-08-13 at 11:18 AM.

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    Prove what deaths she caused.

    Use verifiable evidence, not rumors or opinion.
    The testimony of surviving POW's.
    Look it up.

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman909 View Post
    The testimony of surviving POW's.
    Look it up.
    Already did, and posted it.
    Obviously, you got nothing.
    You lose.

    Despite the claims of hundreds of Vietnam veterans who maintain they were "there" and affirm that accounts like the "smuggled Social Security number betrayal" are true because they supposedly witnessed them, the fact is that Fonda met only seven American POWs while in North Vietnam: Edison Miller, Walter Wilber, James Padgett, David Wesley Hoffman, Kenneth James Fraser, William G. Byrns, and Edward Elias. None of those men reported her sabotaging their attempts to slip her information about themselves, and anyone other than those seven men who asserts he was "there" and witnessed such a scene is simply not telling the truth.

    Some of the POWs who actually did meet with Jane Fonda, such as Edison Miller, have spoken out on the record over the years to disclaim the apocryphal stories about her
    "The whole [e-mail] story about Jane Fonda is just malarkey," said Edison Miller, 73, of California, a former Marine Corps pilot held more than five years. Miller was among seven POWs who met with Fonda in Hanoi. He said he didn't recall her asking any questions other than about their names, if that. He said that he passed her no piece of paper, and that to his knowledge, no other POW in the group did, despite the e-mail's claims.
    Col. Larry Carrigan, the U.S. serviceman whose name is invoked in the e-mailed reproduced at the head of this article, has affirmed that he neither claimed nor experienced any of what has been attributed to him, and that he never even met Jane Fonda:
    "It's a figment of somebody's imagination." said Ret. Col. Larry Carrigan, one of the servicemen mentioned in the 'slips of paper' incident. Carrigan was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967 and did spend time in a POW camp. He has no idea why the story was attributed to him, saying, "I never met Jane Fonda." In 2005, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reported that Carrigan "is so tired of having to repeat that he wasn't beaten after Fonda's visit and that there were no beating deaths at that time that he won't talk to the media anymore."
    The tale about a defiant serviceman who spit at Jane Fonda and was severely beaten as a result is often attributed to Air Force pilot Jerry Driscoll. He has also repeatedly stated on the record that it did not originate with him:
    Driscoll said he never met Fonda, as the e-mail claims — and therefore, never spit on her and didn't suffer permanent double vision from a subsequent beating. "Totally false. It did not happen," Driscoll said.

    "I don't know who came up with [my] name. The trouble that individual has caused me!" he said, referring to the time he has spent repeatedly denying the persistent myth.
    Mike McGrath, President of NAM-POWs, has also stepped forward to disclaim the Internet-circulated rumors about Jane Fonda and American POWs:
    Please excuse the generic response, but I have been swamped with so many e-mails on the subject of the Jane Fonda article (Carrigan, Driscoll, strips of paper, torture and deaths of POWs, etc.) that I have to resort to this pre-scripted rebuttal. The truth is that most of this never happened. This is a hoax story placed on the internet by unknown Fonda haters. No one knows who initiated the story. Please assist by not propagating the story. Fonda did enough bad things to assure her a correct place in the garbage dumps of history. We don't want to be party to false stories, which could be used as an excuse that her real actions didn't really happen either. I have spoken with all the parties named: Carrigan, Driscoll, et al. They all state that this particular internet story is a hoax and they wish to disassociate their names from the false story.

    Read more at snopes.com: Jane Fonda and American POWs in North Vietnam
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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    You mean like the BS right wing line of spin that states they attacked a US warship?
    LOL. That's so far from the truth it is down right slapstick.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    I protested against the war in Viet Nam back in the day, but it was always from the standpoint of getting our boys home so not to see so many die. What Jane did went well beyond that, and believe me, she was not all that popular for doing so among those of us whose views were more responsible and respectful. As soon as a person actually crosses over to support the other side, they have lost all credibility.

    I'm very much reminded of many discussions these days involving Islamists. The degree of apologia among some is so determined that they are little more than modern day Hannoi Janes. Tehran Janes, maybe?

    It is quite possible to oppose certain actions without crossing that line into joining the other side. The old enemy of one's enemy is one's friend fallacy is so strong with some, however, that they are incapable of such distinction.
    Last edited by Gardener; 11-08-13 at 01:36 PM.
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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Nice dodge, but seriously if defending someone that you've accused of treason makes one a traitor as well than you've basically ended several liberties in your attempt to defend them. Specifically you've ended freedom of speech, because having a certain opinion equates to treason according to you, and you've ended the right to representation in court since if she had a defense attonery he'd be a traitor as well.

    None of that has to do with Obama, that's your opinion.
    I'm just one of tens of millions if not hundreds of millions back then who have accused Hanoi Jane of treason.

    If I remember correctly back during the 70's the left's defense was that Hanoi Jane couldn't be tried for treason because the Vietnam war wasn't a "declared war." The United States has fought over a hundred wars that weren't declared wars by Congress.

    Your argument and the left's argument would be if a soldier were to fall asleep while on the perimeter in combat in Vietnam or even Afghanistan today that the soldier couldn't face the death penalty under Article 113 of the UCMJ because neither wars were declared wars. Bull ####.

    Re: Obama.

    We have less personal freedoms in America today than we had in 2008.

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    I'm just one of tens of millions if not hundreds of millions back then who have accused Hanoi Jane of treason.

    If I remember correctly back during the 70's the left's defense was that Hanoi Jane couldn't be tried for treason because the Vietnam war wasn't a "declared war." The United States has fought over a hundred wars that weren't declared wars by Congress.

    Your argument and the left's argument would be if a soldier were to fall asleep while on the perimeter in combat in Vietnam or even Afghanistan today that the soldier couldn't face the death penalty under Article 113 of the UCMJ because neither wars were declared wars. Bull ####.

    Re: Obama.

    We have less personal freedoms in America today than we had in 2008.
    If I remember right APA, Nixon himself choose not to prosecute Fonda although many of his aides wanted him to. He, Nixon didn't want all the publicity and demonstrations that a treason trial would have brought while he was in serious negotiation with the North Vietnamese. That was from one of his books he wrote.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    I am with Navy Pride on this. I will never forgive her for what she did in Viet Nam.

    That being said, my thoughts are in direct conflict with Christian theology and the teachings of the Catholic Church. As is his.

    Consider this, the Apostle Paul, (formally known as Saul,) done things far worse than anything Hanoi Jane could ever do. Yet, upon his repentance, he became on of the most admired apostles in Christianity.

    "Jane Fonda realizes that she made a serious mistake in 1972 when she had a little sing-along with North Vietnamese soldiers while sitting on an anti-aircraft gun that may have shot down some of our American boys. According to an April 3 article on Newsmax, Jane Fonda admitted on the Oprah Winfrey Network (OWN) that she will go to her grave with this “unforgivable mistake.” <snip> 'Hanoi Jane' Fonda says she will go to her grave with her 'unforgivable mistake' - Knoxville Politics | Examiner.com

    Forgiving her would be the Christian thing to do. Far be it from me or Mr. Pride to do the Christian thing.

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
    Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy" until you can find a gun.

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    It would be the Christian thing to do. I guess I need work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    I am with Navy Pride on this. I will never forgive her for what she did in Viet Nam.

    That being said, my thoughts are in direct conflict with Christian theology and the teachings of the Catholic Church. As is his.

    Consider this, the Apostle Paul, (formally known as Saul,) done things far worse than anything Hanoi Jane could ever do. Yet, upon his repentance, he became on of the most admired apostles in Christianity.

    "Jane Fonda realizes that she made a serious mistake in 1972 when she had a little sing-along with North Vietnamese soldiers while sitting on an anti-aircraft gun that may have shot down some of our American boys. According to an April 3 article on Newsmax, Jane Fonda admitted on the Oprah Winfrey Network (OWN) that she will go to her grave with this “unforgivable mistake.” <snip> 'Hanoi Jane' Fonda says she will go to her grave with her 'unforgivable mistake' - Knoxville Politics | Examiner.com

    Forgiving her would be the Christian thing to do. Far be it from me or Mr. Pride to do the Christian thing.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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