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America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

Although the right loves to hate Alinsky, I haven't actually found out specifically what it is about him that they hate so much. I don't know a lot about him, but all of it has been very positive. What was his crime? Helping the poor organize? The man who wrote "Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon" and threatened to protest with a fart-in at a symphony concert can't be all bad.

Alinsky like most radical leftist used the poor to further their socialist agenda. They need the poor to gain political power.

>" Born to Russian-Jewish parents in Chicago in 1909, Saul Alinsky was a Communist/Marxist fellow-traveler who helped establish the tactics of infiltration -- coupled with a measure of confrontation -- that have been central to revolutionary political movements in the United States in recent decades. He never joined the Communist Party but instead, as David Horowitz puts it, became an avatar of the post-modern left.

Though Alinsky is rightfully understood to have been a leftist, his legacy is more methodological than ideological. He identified a set of very specific rules that ordinary citizens could follow, and tactics that ordinary citizens could employ, as a means of gaining public power. His motto was, “The most effective means are whatever will achieve the desired results.”

Alinsky studied criminology as a graduate student at the University of Chicago, during which time he became friendly with Al Capone and his mobsters. Ryan Lizza, senior editor of The New Republic, offers a glimpse into Alinsky’s personality: “Charming and self-absorbed, Alinsky would entertain friends with stories -- some true, many embellished -- from his mob days for decades afterward. He was profane, outspoken, and narcissistic, always the center of attention despite his tweedy, academic look and thick, horn-rimmed glasses.”...<

Saul Alinsky - Discover the Networks

What's the Jane Fonda and the fringe of the radical left (including Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Robert Sheer, Bill Ayres) connection to Saul Alinsky ?

>" In 1969, SDS began splintering into factions, one of which, calling itself Weatherman, was elected to SDS leadership and proclaimed that the time had come to launch a race war on behalf of the Third World and against the United States. This new entity dissolved SDS and formed a terrorist cult in its place, which took the name Weather Underground.

By the early 1970s, the openly defiant and revolutionary New Left had spent its political capital and was a dying movement. But its adherents remained committed to the cause, altering their tactics so as to work within the system in a manner the New Left had previously chosen not to do. These latter-day leftists incorporated the tactics of the infamous Saul Alinsky, seeking to change society by first infiltrating its major institutions – the schools, the media, the churches, the entertainment industry, the labor unions, and the three branches of government – and then implementing policies from those positions of power.Most notably, the ex-New Leftists found a home in the Democratic Party. By 1972, they had seized control of the party,..."<

New Left - Discover the Networks
 
"Discover The Networks" is the most moronic pile of dog**** I've ever seen someone attempt to refer to as a source.
 
So you're saying those POWs are lying? Ok. You have a right to that opinion.

But when somebody comes out with a story naming particular POWs being supposedly ratted out by Fonda, and those very POWs say it never happened, I tend to believe them. Feel free to continue calling them liars, though. You have that right.

This sounds suspiciously like you are injecting fact and reason into the right wing sewer babble. Be careful.
 
For a lot of people on this forum a thread on pet grooming is appropriate for bringing up the horrors of socialism. So I won't move to another thread, but continue to ignore it or laugh at it as usual.

If this was a thread on pet grooming then you might have a point. But it isn't and you don't.
 
"Discover The Networks" is the most moronic pile of dog**** I've ever seen someone attempt to refer to as a source.

That's so much easier than actually debating, isn't it? Why are you here?
 
That's so much easier than actually debating, isn't it? Why are you here?

I find that funny when "independents" will discredit a source from a liberal while ignoring a blatantly right-wing partisan source.
 
What has Dick Cheney got to do with Hanoi Jane anyway?

Leftists can't seem to focus.

Nothing. I wasn't the one who brought up Bush. It ain't me with the focus problems, G.
 
Ummm...that is an prime example of true num-nuttery...

I am talking about when you accused me of turning this thread into ...blah blah blah...you were the one that brought up Bush's name to me first... so do try to get your stories straight before throwing another hot load of hooey in my direction, please.
I don't even know what on earth we're arguing about. Somehow you managed to turn a thread about Jane ****ing Fonda into another "WHAAA OBAMA BLAMED BUSH." And then claimed you remembered one from May, or something. Then brought up the Saul Alinsky reference for good measure. It's like Side A of the Right Wing's Greatest Hits album.

Part of the thing that really doesn't bother me about people on the left blaming Bush is that a lot of that blame is richly deserved.
Plus, I have no idea what the May reference is about... but it makes no never mind, you are not arguing any substance, per usual, so not worth bothering about.
 
Citation needed, please.

It was back when Obama made us the world laughing stock over Syria. You look it up, it was in the press.
 
The photograph incident is the one that I'm interested, so let's look at that according to your source.

This is important, and strikes me as being anti-American to a particularly worrying extent. Gleefully looking through the sites of a AA gun "at imaginary American planes" gives me the impression that she's not just innocently anti-war, but anti-American. Just one problem: I can't find such a photograph. Everything I've been able to uncover on Google Image Search just shows the photographs where she's listening to others sing, singing herself, and her hands are either clasped in her lap or up near her face in delight while the translator (according to her) translates the pro-liberty lyrics. If anybody can provide this photograph clearly showing her looking through the sites I'd appreciate it. If this photo exists, that would shatter most illusions of her meeting with enemy civilians in order to demonstrate that they're people too, which makes complete sense if you're anti-war. It's a lot of what being anti-war is about.
Well, if it doesn't sting at all, and your hastily beaten retreat when you found out how totally wrong [ not to mention in what a pitiful state one's internet research skills must be ]... and which, I can pretty much assure you brought a chuckle to many...how utterly wrong you were when two of us found different pictures depicting exactly what you cast doubt upon as to their being any actual photos in existence...

But I guess what is worth bringing up again, besides rubbing it in a bit...would be to get from you certain acquiescence that Hanoi Jane is just what you said she would be if she were, indeed, to be caught in such acts, those of being unabashedly "anti-American" as you put it [ see in red where I bolded, above ].
 
Ummm...that is an prime example of true num-nuttery...

I am talking about when you accused me of turning this thread into ...blah blah blah...you were the one that brought up Bush's name to me first... so do try to get your stories straight before throwing another hot load of hooey in my direction, please. Plus, I have no idea what the May reference is about... but it makes no never mind, you are not arguing any substance, per usual, so not worth bothering about.

Oh, TO YOU. I guess you decided to conveniently ignore the FIRST mention of Bush, which was made by Navy Pride. I guess the world really does just revolve around you.

As far as the May thing goes, that might have been you or Navy, so apologies if I got mixed up.
 
So you're saying those POWs are lying? Ok. You have a right to that opinion.

But when somebody comes out with a story naming particular POWs being supposedly ratted out by Fonda, and those very POWs say it never happened, I tend to believe them. Feel free to continue calling them liars, though. You have that right.

Did I say they're lying?

Read The Constitution. Educate yourself on what treason is.
 
Oh, TO YOU. I guess you decided to conveniently ignore the FIRST mention of Bush, which was made by Navy Pride. I guess the world really does just revolve around you.

As far as the May thing goes, that might have been you or Navy, so apologies if I got mixed up.
Its cool on the May thing...and no, sorry if it hurts your self-esteem, but I don't read and remember every post that goes to "Kobie"... generally would seem to be pretty much a waste of perfectly good time. I rarely see any posts with substance, research, logic or evidence provided... just, you know, random opinions... those who do mostly that might want to spruce up those opinions with at least some attempt toward cleverness; snarky without an astute adroitness with words is just... so...ho hum.
 
You need to start backing up your ridiculous posts............who are these so called POWs that don't exist? Post a link to their statements that back up your lies.

[SIZE=-1]"Ex-POW Is No Fan of Fonda, But He Debunks E-Mail Claim."
Minneapolis Star Tribune, May 25, 2005.

From the original hoax email that started this idea:
"Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of paper. She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turned to the officer in charge ... and handed him the little pile of notes.

"Three men died from the subsequent beatings. [/SIZE]Col. Carrigan was almost number four.

[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]
"It's a figment of somebody's imagination." said Ret. Col. Larry Carrigan, one of the servicemen mentioned in the 'slips of paper' incident. Carrigan was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967 and did spend time in a POW camp. He has no idea why the story was attributed to him, saying, "I never met Jane Fonda." In 2005, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reported that Carrigan "is so tired of having to repeat that he wasn't beaten after Fonda's visit and that there were no beating deaths at that time that he won't talk to the media anymore."

You want to bitch about evidence, man? You got this idiocy from a chain email. You never had any evidence in the first place.
 
I hope "communism" and "socialist" aren't drinking game words either, or we'd all die of liver disease by the end of the day.

If the words were, Hanoi Janes liver would have been pickled a long time ago. Here's one of the things that American scum said, "I, a socialist, think that we should strive toward a socialist society, all the way to communism".
 
Did I say they're lying?

Read The Constitution. Educate yourself on what treason is.

:roll: Want to take an absolutist definition of "aid," do you? Have fun with that.
 
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