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Thread: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Every country everywhere interferes in the internal affairs of other nations every day.
    Not to the extent that the USA does.

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    • Because all nations deserve the right of self determination.
      Tell that to the communists, socialists, statists and radical muslims. Then get back with the rest of us, rational types.
    • Because it is immoral to kill people, or otherwise interfere, for "our interests" when it is not self defense.
      Right. It's always best to let them kill some of us first. Or somebody else that we need and care about.
    • Because "our interests" are probably the interests of politicians and business interests, not the interests of the rest of us.
      Our politician and our business interests are all of our interests. Like it or not.
    • Because as outsiders we are unlikely to know what is best for others.
      Try telling that to the UN. Then get back with the rest of us, rational types.
    • Because history shows that we are likely to be deceptive, heavy handed, arrogant and violent with our interference.
      History shows and proves we are far more likely to help other nations without any of the stuff you listed. But in what you did list, we generally use that when justified.
    • Because it is impossible to predict whether it will be for the best.
      But it's not impossible to predict what doing nothing cause.
    • Because we make enemies when we do it, and that makes us less safe.
      We also make many friends when we do it making us much safer. Assuming no idiots are running the State department like we've had the last five years.


    In other words, for all the same reasons why no one in our country would want China, or anyone else, interfering in our internal affairs.
    They do it all the time. Just like all other nations.

    I support using diplomacy to prevent or reduce human rights violations. I support limited use of intelligence to find potential threats. I support using force only for self defense or to stop a genocidal situation.
    I'm not aware of any American President that hasn't supported diplomacy. So you really don't want to find "potential threats", go figure coming from an -ist. Where's the strategy for any military involvement for a "genocidal situation"?
    What caused you to despise America?
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Not to the extent that the USA does.
    You have no evidence to support that claim.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    What caused you to despise America?
    They have to be carefully taught.

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Our politician and our business interests are all of our interests. Like it or not.
    Although we share some common interests with our politicians and large corporations, they have plenty of their own interests that are contrary to the public interest. Politicians want campaign donations and to get re-elected, and most of them will do anything for those goals. Corporations want to maximize profits and nearly all of them will do anything for that goals.

    There is a fairly unknown and ugly story behind the USA's foreign policies that many of you seem to know little about. I recommend the book Legacy of Ashes by Tim Weiner to start learning about it.

    "From Publishers Weekly
    Is the Central Intelligence Agency a bulwark of freedom against dangerous foes, or a malevolent conspiracy to spread American imperialism? A little of both, according to this absorbing study, but, the author concludes, it is mainly a reservoir of incompetence and delusions that serves no one's interests well. Pulitzer Prize–winning New York Times correspondent Weiner musters extensive archival research and interviews with top-ranking insiders, including former CIA chiefs Richard Helms and Stansfield Turner, to present the agency's saga as an exercise in trying to change the world without bothering to understand it. Hypnotized by covert action and pressured by presidents, the CIA, he claims, wasted its resources fomenting coups, assassinations and insurgencies, rigging foreign elections and bribing political leaders, while its rare successes inspired fiascoes like the Bay of Pigs and the Iran-Contra affair. Meanwhile, Weiner contends, its proper function of gathering accurate intelligence languished. With its operations easily penetrated by enemy spies, the CIA was blind to events in adversarial countries like Russia, Cuba and Iraq and tragically wrong about the crucial developments under its purview, from the Iranian revolution and the fall of communism to the absence of Iraqi WMDs. Many of the misadventures Weiner covers, at times sketchily, are familiar, but his comprehensive survey brings out the persistent problems that plague the agency. The result is a credible and damning indictment of American intelligence policy....

    Tim Weiner has won the Pulitzer Prize and the National Book Award for his writing on vital issues of American national security. As a correspondent for The New York Times, he covered the Central Intelligence Agency and the Pentagon in Washington, and reported on war and terrorism from Afghanistan, Pakistan, the Sudan, and many other nations over the course of 15 years. "
    Amazon

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    What caused you to despise America?
    I don't. But I believe in representational democracy, not in allowing a shadow government to control our foreign policies and actions.

    Read post #187. Is that what you believe in?

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Although we share some common interests with our politicians and large corporations, they have plenty of their own interests that are contrary to the public interest. Politicians want campaign donations and to get re-elected, and most of them will do anything for those goals. Corporations want to maximize profits and nearly all of them will do anything for that goals.

    There is a fairly unknown and ugly story behind the USA's foreign policies that many of you seem to know little about. I recommend the book Legacy of Ashes by Tim Weiner to start learning about it.

    "From Publishers Weekly
    Is the Central Intelligence Agency a bulwark of freedom against dangerous foes, or a malevolent conspiracy to spread American imperialism? A little of both, according to this absorbing study, but, the author concludes, it is mainly a reservoir of incompetence and delusions that serves no one's interests well. Pulitzer Prize–winning New York Times correspondent Weiner musters extensive archival research and interviews with top-ranking insiders, including former CIA chiefs Richard Helms and Stansfield Turner, to present the agency's saga as an exercise in trying to change the world without bothering to understand it. Hypnotized by covert action and pressured by presidents, the CIA, he claims, wasted its resources fomenting coups, assassinations and insurgencies, rigging foreign elections and bribing political leaders, while its rare successes inspired fiascoes like the Bay of Pigs and the Iran-Contra affair. Meanwhile, Weiner contends, its proper function of gathering accurate intelligence languished. With its operations easily penetrated by enemy spies, the CIA was blind to events in adversarial countries like Russia, Cuba and Iraq and tragically wrong about the crucial developments under its purview, from the Iranian revolution and the fall of communism to the absence of Iraqi WMDs. Many of the misadventures Weiner covers, at times sketchily, are familiar, but his comprehensive survey brings out the persistent problems that plague the agency. The result is a credible and damning indictment of American intelligence policy....

    Tim Weiner has won the Pulitzer Prize and the National Book Award for his writing on vital issues of American national security. As a correspondent for The New York Times, he covered the Central Intelligence Agency and the Pentagon in Washington, and reported on war and terrorism from Afghanistan, Pakistan, the Sudan, and many other nations over the course of 15 years. "
    Amazon
    Not going to waste my time reading a book by an author that reaches a conclusion then writes the pages of his book with any stretch he can come up with. Also, anybody in the know is well aware that any one using Stansfield Turner as a source or writing he was one that was capable of achieving positive results with his ideas and action is a complete and total idiot. Competent reviews of his books are all a person needs to see that he isn't interested in facts.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I don't. But I believe in representational democracy, not in allowing a shadow government to control our foreign policies and actions.

    Read post #187. Is that what you believe in?
    Gotcha. You have no faith in our representational democracy and never have.

    Post #187 is just another representation by a person looking for anyway to get people to excuse failure of -ist type governments, at any level he can achieve.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    I don't know, but after everything I've read, even if the POW letter scandal is not true, she's still a real bitch. I don't see how anyone can defend her actions during the war. With friends like her, who needs enemies?

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Not going to waste my time reading a book by an author that reaches a conclusion then writes the pages of his book with any stretch he can come up with. Also, anybody in the know is well aware that any one using Stansfield Turner as a source or writing he was one that was capable of achieving positive results with his ideas and action is a complete and total idiot. Competent reviews of his books are all a person needs to see that he isn't interested in facts.
    The author did not start with any conclusions. The book is unbiased and acknowledges successes as well as failures. It is equally critical of both political parties and the different factions within the government. It uses the best available primary sources, including many that had not been reviewed by the press before. All sources of information are footnoted. It acknowledges successes as well as failures. But if you won't trust this book, try any of the others that honestly examine the role of covert operations in foreign policy.

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