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Thread: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    The USA funded (mostly illegally] Contra-suported Dictator Somoza and his cohorts were removed from power and resistance leader Daniel Ortega was legitimately elected president more than once.

    You don't win a war against totalitarianism by supporting totalitarian dictatorships. It was a war against communists, not for freedom.

    Since both Iraq and Afghanistan are now almost completely Muslim, any factional fighting would have to be between Islamic factions.
    Ahem. The Contras did not come into being until after Somoza's death. In the first free election after the Nicaraguan Civil War Ortega lost.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Ah, the old "anyone who would vote for Obama doesn't understand anything." Typical conservative arrogance.
    Lincoln understood the difficulty that BHO now faces.

    "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."

    Abraham Lincoln

    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    The USA funded (mostly illegally] Contra-suported Dictator Somoza and his cohorts were removed from power and resistance leader Daniel Ortega was legitimately elected president more than once.
    I understand you know little about this period, and thats okay, but you think you do and are attempting to debate something you obviously know little about. I have lived in Central America off and on for 20 years, have spent a lot of time in Nicaragua, have many Nicaraguan friends and have had several Nicaraguan employees. You are getting your information from some place that is still regurgitating old left wing propaganda.

    Yes, Ortega has been elected President and, surprisingly, is doing not a bad job now. The funny thing is that instead of always blaming the Americans for all the country's problems, which you do also of course, he is now blaming the EU.

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Ahem. The Contras did not come into being until after Somoza's death. In the first free election after the Nicaraguan Civil War Ortega lost.
    Yes, he lost a couple of times and finally won. He appealed to the poorly educated, designed enemies, and promised free stuff.

    My housekeeper wept when she heard the news of his election but she now says he's not doing as bad a job as she expected. Others say the same. That only means he is not now as corrupt as he was. Ortega does control any opposition however and will ignore the Constitution when it suits him.

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Lincoln understood the difficulty that BHO now faces.

    "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."

    Abraham Lincoln

    Obama is doing a pretty good job of fooling some of the people all of the time, and that's often all you need.

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Ahem. The Contras did not come into being until after Somoza's death. In the first free election after the Nicaraguan Civil War Ortega lost.
    1.Correct, I should have said dictator-friendly Contras.

    2. That depends on which election you consider to be "free."

    "...At the 1984 general election Ortega won the presidency with 67% of the vote and took office on 10 January 1985. A report by an Irish governmentary delegation stated: "The electoral process was carried out with total integrity. The seven parties participating in the elections represented a broad spectrum of political ideologies." The general counsel of New York's Human Rights Commission described the election as "free, fair and hotly contested." A study by the US Latin American Studies Association (LASA) concluded that the FSLN (Sandinista Front) "did little more to take advantage of its incumbency than incumbent parties everywhere (including the U.S.) routinely do." However some people described the election as "rigged". According to a detailed study, since the 1984 election was for posts subordinate to the Sandinista Directorate, the elections were no more subject to approval by vote than the Central Committee of the Communist Party is in countries of the East Bloc.[22]

    33 percent of the Nicaraguan voters cast ballots for one of six opposition parties—three to the right of the Sandinistas, three to the left—which had campaigned with the aid of government funds and free TV and radio time. Two conservative parties captured a combined 23 percent of the vote. They held rallies across the country (a few of which were disrupted by FSLN supporters) and blasted the Sandinistas in harsh terms. Most foreign and independent observers noted this pluralism in debunking the Reagan administration charge—ubiquitous in the US media—that it was a "Soviet-style sham" election.[23] Some opposition parties boycotted the election, allegedly under pressure from US embassy officials, and so it was denounced as being unfair by the Reagan administration.[24] Reagan thus maintained that he was justified to continue supporting what he referred to as the Contras' "democratic resistance".[25]

    Interim years (1990–2006)
    In the 1990 presidential election, Ortega lost to Violeta Barrios de Chamorro, his former colleague in the junta. Chamorro was supported by the US and a 14-party anti-Sandinista alliance known as the National Opposition Union (Unión Nacional Oppositora, UNO), an alliance that ranged from conservatives and liberals to communists. Contrary to what most observers expected,[26] Chamorro shocked Ortega and won the election. In Ortega's concession speech the following day he vowed to keep "ruling from below" a reference to the power that the FSLN still wielded in various sectors. He also stressed his belief that the Sandinistas had the goal of bringing "dignity" to Latin America, and not necessarily to hold on to government posts...."
    Wikipedia

    Ortega was elect president again in 2006

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    1.Correct, I should have said dictator-friendly Contras.

    2. That depends on which election you consider to be "free."

    "...At the 1984 general election Ortega won the presidency with 67% of the vote and took office on 10 January 1985. A report by an Irish governmentary delegation stated: "The electoral process was carried out with total integrity. The seven parties participating in the elections represented a broad spectrum of political ideologies." The general counsel of New York's Human Rights Commission described the election as "free, fair and hotly contested." A study by the US Latin American Studies Association (LASA) concluded that the FSLN (Sandinista Front) "did little more to take advantage of its incumbency than incumbent parties everywhere (including the U.S.) routinely do." However some people described the election as "rigged". According to a detailed study, since the 1984 election was for posts subordinate to the Sandinista Directorate, the elections were no more subject to approval by vote than the Central Committee of the Communist Party is in countries of the East Bloc.[22]

    33 percent of the Nicaraguan voters cast ballots for one of six opposition parties—three to the right of the Sandinistas, three to the left—which had campaigned with the aid of government funds and free TV and radio time. Two conservative parties captured a combined 23 percent of the vote. They held rallies across the country (a few of which were disrupted by FSLN supporters) and blasted the Sandinistas in harsh terms. Most foreign and independent observers noted this pluralism in debunking the Reagan administration charge—ubiquitous in the US media—that it was a "Soviet-style sham" election.[23] Some opposition parties boycotted the election, allegedly under pressure from US embassy officials, and so it was denounced as being unfair by the Reagan administration.[24] Reagan thus maintained that he was justified to continue supporting what he referred to as the Contras' "democratic resistance".[25]

    Interim years (1990–2006)
    In the 1990 presidential election, Ortega lost to Violeta Barrios de Chamorro, his former colleague in the junta. Chamorro was supported by the US and a 14-party anti-Sandinista alliance known as the National Opposition Union (Unión Nacional Oppositora, UNO), an alliance that ranged from conservatives and liberals to communists. Contrary to what most observers expected,[26] Chamorro shocked Ortega and won the election. In Ortega's concession speech the following day he vowed to keep "ruling from below" a reference to the power that the FSLN still wielded in various sectors. He also stressed his belief that the Sandinistas had the goal of bringing "dignity" to Latin America, and not necessarily to hold on to government posts...."
    Wikipedia

    Ortega was elect president again in 2006
    There is no evidence that the Contras were dictator-friendly.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Yes, he lost a couple of times and finally won. He appealed to the poorly educated, designed enemies, and promised free stuff.

    My housekeeper wept when she heard the news of his election but she now says he's not doing as bad a job as she expected. Others say the same. That only means he is not now as corrupt as he was. Ortega does control any opposition however and will ignore the Constitution when it suits him.
    Thanks for the anecdotes.

    My point isn't that Ortega is so great (he isn't], my point is that the USA (and other countries] should not interfere with the internal affairs of other nations.

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    There is no evidence that the Contras were dictator-friendly.
    Many of the Contras were officers in Somoza's National guard.

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Many of the Contras were officers in Somoza's National guard.
    So what?
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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