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Thread: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Mostly?
    Claim: During a trip to North Vietnam, Jane Fonda turned smuggled messages from U.S. POWs over to their captors.

    FALSE


    Despite the claims of hundreds of Vietnam veterans who maintain they were "there" and affirm that accounts like the "smuggled Social Security number betrayal" are true because they supposedly witnessed them, the fact is that Fonda met only seven American POWs while in North Vietnam: Edison Miller, Walter Wilber, James Padgett, David Wesley Hoffman, Kenneth James Fraser, William G. Byrns, and Edward Elias. None of those men reported her sabotaging their attempts to slip her information about themselves, and anyone other than those seven men who asserts he was "there" and witnessed such a scene is simply not telling the truth.

    Some of the POWs who actually did meet with Jane Fonda, such as Edison Miller, have spoken out on the record over the years to disclaim the apocryphal stories about her

    "The whole [e-mail] story about Jane Fonda is just malarkey," said Edison Miller, 73, of California, a former Marine Corps pilot held more than five years. Miller was among seven POWs who met with Fonda in Hanoi. He said he didn't recall her asking any questions other than about their names, if that. He said that he passed her no piece of paper, and that to his knowledge, no other POW in the group did, despite the e-mail's claims.

    Col. Larry Carrigan, the U.S. serviceman whose name is invoked in the e-mailed reproduced at the head of this article, has affirmed that he neither claimed nor experienced any of what has been attributed to him, and that he never even met Jane Fonda:

    "It's a figment of somebody's imagination." said Ret. Col. Larry Carrigan, one of the servicemen mentioned in the 'slips of paper' incident. Carrigan was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967 and did spend time in a POW camp. He has no idea why the story was attributed to him, saying, "I never met Jane Fonda." In 2005, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reported that Carrigan "is so tired of having to repeat that he wasn't beaten after Fonda's visit and that there were no beating deaths at that time that he won't talk to the media anymore."


    http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Claim: During a trip to North Vietnam, Jane Fonda turned smuggled messages from U.S. POWs over to their captors.

    FALSE




    http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp
    Fair enough, but I still feel that the way she behaved was bordering on treason. She was definitely not considered "friendly" by most of the troops I believe.

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Fair enough, but I still feel that the way she behaved was bordering on treason. She was definitely not considered "friendly" by most of the troops I believe.
    It's unclear on whether her actions qualify as treason, but if I were a soldier I would feel no love for her either.

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    You can be all the angry you want at Jane Fonda, for me she is non enity in the whole scheme of things. I just feel that Agent Orange harmed more servicemen than Hanoi Jane ever did.
    Then open a thread on Agent Orange. Otherwise a significant part of 'the scheme of things' is being discussed, namely propaganda against one's own country and aiding and abetting those who were murdering her fellow Americans.
    As for the spitting thing. I flew into airports in uniform in the early 70's and never seen any of that. To me it just felt as people just ignored us unlike today where people are really thankful and decent to servicemen they meet in airports. Am certain it happened in isolated events but to me that would be like going up to an unchained Doberman and slapping it.
    It seems that American soldiers were frequently mistreated by their fellow Americans during this period and the evidence is still there. No doubt there is some whitewashing going on but these events weren't all that 'isolated', and they should have never happened at all. It was people like Jane Fonda who helped turn Americans against each other, and that feeling reverberates to this day.

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Then open a thread on Agent Orange. Otherwise a significant part of 'the scheme of things' is being discussed, namely propaganda against one's own country and aiding and abetting those who were murdering her fellow Americans.


    It seems that American soldiers were frequently mistreated by their fellow Americans during this period and the evidence is still there. No doubt there is some whitewashing going on but these events weren't all that 'isolated', and they should have never happened at all. It was people like Jane Fonda who helped turn Americans against each other, and that feeling reverberates to this day.
    As per the "murdering her fellow Americans" bit, that's sort of what can be expected to happen when you send troops into a foreign country, which is why it's so important to be certain that the cause you're sending those soldiers for is important and necessary.

    Our soldiers got screwed on both ends, both for being sent into a hostile territory unnecessarily, and for the treatment they received by so many civilians for something they had no say in participating. While Jane Fonda's actions are extremely distasteful for me, I'm also still pretty "meh" about it when considering the larger abuse of the harm our politicians caused to our image, soul and of course the frivolous misuse of our soldiers' lives. We trust our leaders to go to war for the right reasons, and they failed us miserably.

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    As per the "murdering her fellow Americans" bit, that's sort of what can be expected to happen when you send troops into a foreign country, which is why it's so important to be certain that the cause you're sending those soldiers for is important and necessary.
    Please use the entire quote or it distorts the meaning. I said she was "aiding and abetting those who were murdering her fellow Americans". The necessity of the war was not part of the issue under discussion.

    Our soldiers got screwed on both ends, both for being sent into a hostile territory unnecessarily, and for the treatment they received by so many civilians for something they had no say in participating.
    Two Democrats, Kennedy and Johnson, thought it necessary.

    While Jane Fonda's actions are extremely distasteful for me, I'm also still pretty "meh" about it when considering the larger abuse of the harm our politicians caused to our image, soul and of course the frivolous misuse of our soldiers' lives.
    More than anything it was the protesters who tarnished America's image. The 'souls' of these soldiers would have been fine if they were treated with the respect they deserved when they returned home.

    We trust our leaders to go to war for the right reasons, and they failed us miserably.
    Among the Left there will be no "right reasons". They will inevitably side with America's enemies. "The right reasons" can be debated and defended but the disgusting behavior by some Americans against those who were drafted, and then fought for their country, is indefensible and the country has been divided since then. Destroying a democratic superpower was not as difficult as it might have appeared just two generations ago.

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Claim: During a trip to North Vietnam, Jane Fonda turned smuggled messages from U.S. POWs over to their captors.

    FALSE




    http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp
    Nonetheless only two have gone on record to defend her. Others have declined to speak publicly or passed away.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Nonetheless only two have gone on record to defend her. Others have declined to speak publicly or passed away.
    So you have two who say it's false and none who say it's true. The veracity of the accusation isn't looking very good.

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Please use the entire quote or it distorts the meaning. I said she was "aiding and abetting those who were murdering her fellow Americans". The necessity of the war was not part of the issue under discussion.
    I did use your whole quote. And if I want to look at Jane Fonda's actions in relation (and comparison) to the war itself, I will do that, thank you very much.

    Two Democrats, Kennedy and Johnson, thought it necessary.
    And the point of them being Democrats is...?

    More than anything it was the protesters who tarnished America's image. The 'souls' of these soldiers would have been fine if they were treated with the respect they deserved when they returned home.
    That would be of little comfort to the 58,000 American soldiers killed in the war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Among the Left there will be no "right reasons". They will inevitably side with America's enemies. "The right reasons" can be debated and defended but the disgusting behavior by some Americans against those who were drafted, and then fought for their country, is indefensible and the country has been divided since then. Destroying a democratic superpower was not as difficult as it might have appeared just two generations ago.
    The treatment by civilians against soldiers was disgusting and indefensible, and you won't see me claim otherwise. As for "the right reasons," I don't believe going to war over ideology and economics (capitalism vs. communism) are valid reasons, but I suspect we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

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    Re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    So you have two who say it's false and none who say it's true. The veracity of the accusation isn't looking very good.
    Some have chosen not to speak (thus far) and some passed away without going on record. I'm sure they have/had their reasons and those should obviously be respected. The question remains open.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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