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Thread: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Should we look at things from the perspective of a concentration camp guard, too? The Gastapo? The KGB? Jeffery Dalmer? Ted Kazinski? The Khmer Rouge?
    Yes, because clearly she's just as much of a monster as those people.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    BTW: Wikipedia isn't really a reliable source when it comes to politics and political figures.
    Neither is that bull**** "Networks" crap you cited earlier.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Should we look at things from the perspective of a concentration camp guard, too? The Gastapo? The KGB? Jeffery Dalmer? Ted Kazinski? The Khmer Rouge?
    As I stated, Jane Fonda's blogpost won't change the mind of some people and clearly, you're one among them. Still, I'll reiterate: I'm not endorsing her one way or another. I've merely provided the link to her blogpost for those reading this thread so they can read her account for themselves and make up their own minds how to feel about it.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Have you not read anything I've written?

    Treason is a crime. You do not ask for "precedent" on the fact pattern when trying a crime. "Precedent" is irrelevant. Do the facts fulfill the elements or not? The jury decides. You do not EVER need to cite earlier cases with similar fact patterns. That is not a concern at the trial level. If jury decides the facts fulfill the elements, then they do.
    Yes, I've read what you've written, and all you're doing is repeating that aiding and abetting is aiding and abetting. That does not specify which actions fall under such a broad category.

    And repeating that no earlier cases or precedents are required is basically broadcasting to the whole planet that you have nothing to base your position on.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 11-09-13 at 07:36 PM.

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Yes, because clearly she's just as much of a monster as those people.
    I know, right?

    But as the saying goes, "One 'Ah, [expletive]' takes away from all the 'At a boys'". Hanoi Jane's "Ah [expletive]" was in placing herself in a position to have such a "suggestively sympathetic to the enemy" picture taken from which all such anti-American sentiments apparently sprung from. I honestly don't know enough about her efforts with the military; as I said I really have never taken the time to learn more about the activist side of her life beyond her film career. But I can certainly see how people - Vietnam vets in particular - would have a lasting negative impression of her. It's kinda like discovering that MLK posed for pictures with the Rebel Flag in the background or shook hands with the Grand Wizard of the KKK while talking up Civil Rights. It just doesn't gel right in the hearts and minds of those most impacted by his civil rights struggle.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I'm not a Vietnam veteran, so I admit I've never fully understood what all the fuse was about over Jane Fonda's visit to N. Vietnam or the photos that were taken of her amongst the N. VC troops. Part of me understands the impression she left, certainly. But there's another side that always believed perhaps there was another side to the story folks either didn't know, didn't want to know (because of their hatred for the war along with their personal emotional investment in the war, i.e., they fought in it, knew someone who went over their or lost a friend or loved one).

    Now, call me a liberal if you wish, but as I said since I'm not of that era nor am I a Vietnam vet I don't claim to fully understand the emotional fall out that resonates with Vietnam vets to this day. Nonetheless, I have tried to learn about this moment in time and seek to understand from the Vietnam vet's point of view why her visit and subsequent photo shot still leaves a bitter taste in their mouths. And with that in mind, I did a quick online search on the matter and found Jane Fonda's website which contains a blog entry from 2011 where she recounts events of that day and as Paul Harvey was famous for saying (paraphrasing), tells her side of the story.

    I'm in no way taking her side or saying folks should forgive her. But what I am saying is read her words, try to see things from her perspective and understand where she was coming from at the time and maybe some perspectives will change. Then again, maybe some won't because the mental and emotional wounds are just too great. And that's okay. But as my mentor, Stephen A. Covey, is fond of saying, "Seek first to understand and then to be understood". That's all I'm saying.

    The Truth About My Trip To Hanoi | Jane Fonda
    She sanitized all that so she could be excused for her treason. Once again here's some of her words, un-sanitized: " "I, a socialist, think that we should strive toward a socialist society, all the way to communism".

    She went there to raise their morale and fighting spirit against our soldiers. To show them some solidarity and support in their attempts to bring South Vietnam under control of the murdering communists led and sanctioned by Ho. She should have been tried, convicted and executed when she returned to the states.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    She sanitized all that so she could be excused for her treason. Once again here's some of her words, un-sanitized: " "I, a socialist, think that we should strive toward a socialist society, all the way to communism".

    She went there to raise their morale and fighting spirit against our soldiers. To show them some solidarity and support in their attempts to bring South Vietnam under control of the murdering communists led and sanctioned by Ho. She should have been tried, convicted and executed when she returned to the states.
    Is that a quote from an interview she gave some time ago or a reference from a book she authored? If so, can you provide a link or the reference source? I'm just curious as to it's origin.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Yes, I've read what you've written, and all you're doing is repeating that aiding and abetting is aiding and abetting. That does not specify which actions fall under such a broad category.

    And repeating that no earlier cases or precedents are required is basically broadcasting to the whole planet that you have nothing to base your position on.
    Then you aren't understanding a word I'm saying.

    THE JURY decides if the facts fulfill the elements - period. No precedent is needed.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I know, right?

    But as the saying goes, "One 'Ah, [expletive]' takes away from all the 'At a boys'". Hanoi Jane's "Ah [expletive]" was in placing herself in a position to have such a "suggestively sympathetic to the enemy" picture taken from which all such anti-American sentiments apparently sprung from. I honestly don't know enough about her efforts with the military; as I said I really have never taken the time to learn more about the activist side of her life beyond of film career. But I can certainly see how people - Vietnam vets in particular - would have a lasting negative impression of her. It's kinda like discovering that MLK posed for pictures with the Rebel Flag in the background or shook hands with the Grand Wizard of the KKK while talking up Civil Rights. It just doesn't gel right in the hearts and minds of those most impacted by his civil rights struggle.
    Oh, I fully understand why people don't like her. Hell, I don't like her. But when people up there start mentioning her in the same breath as the goddamn Khmer Rouge, then maybe it's time for a little perspective.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    As I stated, Jane Fonda's blogpost won't change the mind of some people and clearly, you're one among them. Still, I'll reiterate: I'm not endorsing her one way or another. I've merely provided the link to her blogpost for those reading this thread so they can read her account for themselves and make up their own minds how to feel about it.
    Funny how you didn't provide any opposing view so people could make up their minds on how to feel about it.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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