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Thread: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Is there precedent for posing with enemy combatants being categorized as treason?
    When it's for propaganda meant to aid the enemy's cause, it's treason:

    Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
    "Precedent" has nothing to do with it, as it doesn't with any other crime. If you fulfill the elements, you're guilty of it.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    When it's for propaganda meant to aid the enemy's cause, it's treason:



    "Precedent" has nothing to do with it, as it doesn't with any other crime. If you fulfill the elements, you're guilty of it.
    Precedent is crucial because "aid and comfort" are vague terms. What is "cruel and unusual"? As vague as "aid and comfort" are, you could argue that libertarians and conservatives arguing for the secession of Texas weakens us as a union and therefore gives Al Qaeda strength (and therefore aid and comfort) over us.

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Precedent is crucial because "aid and comfort" are vague terms.
    Not really. And you do not look to "precedent" to reach a verdict in a criminal trial. The jury decides of the actions fulfill the elements or not.


    What is "cruel and unusual"?
    Categorically different. Parsing a law against a prohibition of the Constitution is not at all the same thing as proving the elements of a crime. You get there in different ways for different reasons. Criminal trials are not Constitutional inquiries; they do not consider esoteric questions like that.


    As vague as "aid and comfort" are, you could argue that libertarians and conservatives arguing for the secession of Texas weakens us as a union and therefore gives Al Qaeda strength over us.
    No, not even close. Talk of secession has not one thing to do with al Qaeda. Though you could argue for incitement of rebellion or insurrection.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Not really. And you do not look to "precedent" to reach a verdict in a criminal trial. The jury decides of the actions fulfill the elements or not.




    Categorically different. Parsing a law against a prohibition of the Constitution is not at all the same thing as proving the elements of a crime. You get there in different ways for different reasons. Criminal trials are not Constitutional inquiries; they do not consider esoteric questions like that.




    No, not even close. Talk of secession has not one thing to do with al Qaeda. Though you could argue for incitement of rebellion or insurrection.

    According to your interpretation. According to mine I could say that the support of the division of the United States gives aid and comfort to Al Qaeda's goals. Nothing you've said addresses the vagueness of the term, which was my point. It means whatever the beholder reads into it, which is exactly why precedent is so important.

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    According to your interpretation. According to mine I could say that the support of the division of the United States gives and comfort to Al Qaeda's goals.
    Treason is an intentional crime. You'd have to prove intent to aid Al Qaeda, and you're not going to get there.


    Nothing you've said addresses the vagueness of the term, which was my point. It means whatever the beholder sees into it.
    What's vague about "aid"? It means, help, assistance, cooperation. And the "beholder" is the jury who decides whether or not the action fulfills the element; I already said this.

    By your argument, you'd need "precedent" for whether or not someone committed murder if they did it by remote-control robot. But in reality, no, you don't.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    She sat in a seat. Oh my god! And someone snapped a photo! Thats not treason. You would have to prove that she knew that those images were gonna be used as propaganda. And if that i dont even know if that would be considered treason.
    Literally have no case or proof that she was "aiding and comforting the enemy".
    You must be smarter than that post, which indicates that you are just blowing smoke to defend the indenfesible. HJ travelled to Vietnam in violation of a federal law prohibiting said travel. Posed for at least one photo intended use as propaganda by the VC. There are/were a number of other incidents during her stay. To say that there is no proof is denial.

    There were a lot of anti war protesters, and for the most part I support most of them in their right to protest. Those that vioated the law and aided the enemy not so much.

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I find that funny when "independents" will discredit a source from a liberal while ignoring a blatantly right-wing partisan source.
    Then perhaps you should rise above this habit, unless you feel its more amusing when you do it.

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Nothing. I wasn't the one who brought up Bush. It ain't me with the focus problems, G.
    No focus problems? I asked why you mentioned Cheney and you responded about Bush.

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    If you think there's a singular interpretation of that, I don't know what to tell you.
    Do you really want leftists, who can never seem to focus properly, re-interpreting the Constitution??

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    re: America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Correct. Everyone of them.
    They do differ in some areas though. Nazism, for example, was bad totalitarianism whereas Communism was good totalitarianism.

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