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Thread: LGBT Non-Discrimation Vote Passes Senate [W:215]

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    Re: LGBT Non-Discrimation Vote Passes Senate [W:215]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I don't think we should be coy about this. It does force ideas on people, as it should.
    no it simply protects peoples rights

    now if you want to make the claim the "idea" is that peoples rights should be protected, fine, which is the goal and job of our government and if people are bothered by this they are in the wrong country

    what "ideas" do you think it forces on people
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    Re: LGBT Non-Discrimation Vote Passes Senate [W:215]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    no it simply protects peoples rights

    now if you want to make the claim the "idea" is that peoples rights should be protected, fine, which is the goal and job of our government and if people are bothered by this they are in the wrong country

    what "ideas" do you think it forces on people
    It's a structure that pushes onto society that it is not okay to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity, and promotes acceptance of that sexual practice. I don't think we can ignore it. It's a pretty explicit consequence of such legislation. I think that those talking about it on the public stage ought to hide it until it's a lot further in acceptability, but that's part of what we're for. There's no reason to be ashamed of wanting to change social structures to be more accepting of homosexuals or transgendered individual beyond de jure protections.

    I'm only being rather upfront about it, because well, your interlocutor wears a tinfoil hat anyway.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 11-14-13 at 02:43 AM.
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    Re: LGBT Non-Discrimation Vote Passes Senate [W:215]

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    I initially just posted about your comment about Batman. We would probably disagree on allowing transgender people use the facilities of the gender they associate with and that they shouldnt be discriminated against. By discrimination, I mean not provide services and/or jobs for the reason of them being transgender and/or dressed as the gender they associate with. I would appreciate if people used she/her when referring to me but if a person uses he/him I wont cause a fuss about it.

    I have a Libertarian streak myself on social issues.
    Call me a realist but:

    Boys are born with a penis and girls are born with the vagina... I suppose that concept is too crazy and complicated for progressives...

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    Re: LGBT Non-Discrimation Vote Passes Senate [W:215]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Call me a realist but:

    Boys are born with a penis and girls are born with the vagina... I suppose that concept is too crazy and complicated for progressives...
    Nah, on the contrary. When you show the multiplicity of possible genders, you end up confusing the hell out of people like yourselves that can't count or comprehend beyond the number "two."
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: LGBT Non-Discrimation Vote Passes Senate [W:215]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    1.)It's a structure that pushes onto society that it is not okay to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation
    2.) and promotes acceptance of that sexual practice.
    3.) I don't think we can ignore it. I
    4.) t's a pretty explicit consequence of such legislation.
    5.) I think that those talking about it on the public stage ought to hide it until it's a lot further in acceptability, but that's part of what we're for.
    6.) There's no reason to be ashamed of wanting to change social structures to be more accepting of homosexuals or transgendered individual beyond de jure protections.

    7.) I'm only being rather upfront about it, because well, your interlocutor wears a tinfoil hat anyway.
    1.) true it prevents society from breaking the law and infringing on rights and it helps fight illegal discrimination
    2.) 100% false, ZERO acceptance of any sexual practice is required to not infringe on peoples rights
    3.) theres no force acceptance so its pretty easy

    if this bill pases tomorrow personal acceptance is factually not required, just like people today factually dont personally accept religions, genders, races etc

    4.) theres ZERO consequence for not accepting
    5.) nothing to hide, just like the laws protecting genders, religions, races dont force personal acceptance
    6.) i agree but this bill doesnt force that

    7.) tin foil hat? lol well thats being nice to him

    anyway theres no ideas or acceptance being forced because you can still totally personal NOT accept gay sex and you will not be in violation of this law/bill, so i have no clue how one can come to that conclusion, theres no logic that supports "FORCE" of the idea of acceptance
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    Re: LGBT Non-Discrimation Vote Passes Senate [W:215]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Call me a realist but:

    Boys are born with a penis and girls are born with the vagina... I suppose that concept is too crazy and complicated for progressives...
    thank you for this post that exposes how severely uneducated your posts are about this topic, facts, human and medical science and psychology

    its stunning

    theres nothing "realist" about your post at all its pure ignorance and science and facts totally disagree with you
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    Re: LGBT Non-Discrimation Vote Passes Senate [W:215]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) true it prevents society from breaking the law and infringing on rights and it helps fight illegal discrimination
    2.) 100% false, ZERO acceptance of any sexual practice is required to not infringe on peoples rights
    3.) theres no force acceptance so its pretty easy

    if this bill pases tomorrow personal acceptance is factually not required, just like people today factually dont personally accept religions, genders, races etc

    4.) theres ZERO consequence for not accepting
    5.) nothing to hide, just like the laws protecting genders, religions, races dont force personal acceptance
    6.) i agree but this bill doesnt force that

    7.) tin foil hat? lol well thats being nice to him

    anyway theres no ideas or acceptance being forced because you can still totally personal NOT accept gay sex and you will not be in violation of this law/bill, so i have no clue how one can come to that conclusion, theres no logic that supports "FORCE" of the idea of acceptance
    Did similar protections for the disabled promote an acceptance of individuals with disabilities? I would be foolish to deny it, because even in small doses, the force of the law did. I'm grateful for it, because I benefited from it.

    You're misunderstanding the difference between an abstract social structure and judicial force to make sure people accept the practice.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: LGBT Non-Discrimation Vote Passes Senate [W:215]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    1.)Did similar protections for the disabled promote an acceptance of individuals with disabilities? I would be foolish to deny it, because even in small doses, the force of the law did. I'm grateful for it.

    2.) You're misunderstanding the difference between an abstract social structure and judicial force to make sure people accept the practice.
    1.) now we saying "promote" acceptance instead of force which is GREATLY different

    yes the argument could be made that it promotes people to educate themselves and realize that people with disability dont just sit in a corner and drool on themselves

    but it did NOT force the idea or acceptance of them, many people till this day do not accept them and even think its a good reason for abortion no matter how light the disability is and they are committing no crime

    2.) no you are confusing protecting peoples rights and and POSSIBLE "promoting" people to get educated about what people are and "FORCE"


    if his bill passes right now and tomorrow i go on tv and radio and on line and walk through the streets and announce i dont accept them what law did i break and what will be my punishment forced upon me?

    especially when you say "practice" and not even the person that is just factually wrong.
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    Re: LGBT Non-Discrimation Vote Passes Senate [W:215]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) now we saying "promote" acceptance instead of force which is GREATLY different
    Alright then, let's split the difference and call it...."thrust."

    if his bill passes right now and tomorrow i go on tv and radio and on line and walk through the streets and announce i dont accept them what law did i break and what will be my punishment forced upon me?
    You didn't break the law by not accepting them, but allowing their employment qualifications to shrine through. You would potentially eventually be breaking de facto viewpoints of the LBGT if, as a result of these laws and time, individuals under that LBGT banner are seen as equals and not nearly disdained or shunned as they are today.

    Laws, court decisions, and so forth are a legal mechanism to affect social change. The two are distinct, but interrelated.

    Again, there is absolutely nothing in my mind wrong with this with this legislation. Legislation and court decisions which promote gay marriage also work toward this end. It doesn't mean that there is literally "thought crime." It is, however, a means of making certain thoughts and ideologies less socially acceptable.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: LGBT Non-Discrimation Vote Passes Senate [W:215]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    1.)Alright then, let's split the difference and call it...."thrust."



    2.) You didn't break the law by not accepting them, but allowing their qualifications to shrine through.
    3.) You would potentially eventually be breaking de facto viewpoints of the LBGT if, as a result of these laws and time, individuals under that LBGT banner are seen as equals and not nearly disdained or shunned as they are today.
    1.) ill take thrust if we are talking about thrusting NOT violating peoples rights and thrusting not discriminating but not acceptance, its simply not required.
    the only acceptance that is forced is yes, gays are people with equal rights, nothing else

    now if people are upset they have to accept gays as equal human beings with rights just like they are, again they are in the wrong country

    2.) so then theres no force of acceptance
    3.) but again no force on me and no law broken.

    i get what you are saying but there is ZERO "force" of acceptance . . none
    just like with religion, gender, race etc


    if you can show me where the force is of personal acceptance then id buy it but theres not fiddy sorry I simply cant agree on force because theres nothing factual that supports that
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