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Thread: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Calm down.

    This statement: "
    Another textbook case-no child left behind. At tremendous expense (that could be spend elsewhere in ways proven to improve outcomes) even the govt admits (after being forced to study, and then hiding the results for nearly 2 years) that NCLB DOES NOT IMPROVE OUTCOMES."
    I meant to write in Head Start, thats what I was thinking, but I wrote in NCLB. Simply an error on my part.
    Fair enough. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt


    Moving on-improved performance is not the same as improved outcomes-do you understand this distinction?
    That makes no sense. How does performance differ from outcomes?
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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    That makes no sense. How does performance differ from outcomes?
    Let me give you an example from medicine-A person with terminal stage 4 lung cancer might benefit from surgery to remove the mass effect (think of a bowling ball pushing on someones heart and great vessels), but have no increased survival or even length of remaining life-however the pt would be more comfortable in the mean time. Palliative care.

    Likewise a student might do better on math in school (thanks to some hip new program, lets say), but as it turns out dropout rates, highschool exit exams, and overall highschool grad rates dont improve. This is an example of improved performance NOT leading to improved outcomes.

    What matters, in the end is improved outcomes-because improved outcomes mean a better life for that kid-as seen through income, poverty rates, family success, etc.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Let me give you an example from medicine-A person with terminal stage 4 lung cancer might benefit from surgery to remove the mass effect (think of a bowling ball pushing on someones heart and great vessels), but have no increased survival or even length of remaining life-however the pt would be more comfortable in the mean time. Palliative care.

    Likewise a student might do better on math in school (thanks to some hip new program, lets say), but as it turns out dropout rates, highschool exit exams, and overall highschool grad rates dont improve. This is an example of improved performance NOT leading to improved outcomes.

    What matters, in the end is improved outcomes-because improved outcomes mean a better life for that kid-as seen through income, poverty rates, family success, etc.
    And we're going about that all wrong. Watch the links I proved earlier.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    To be fair, NCLB raised scores. Objective testing SHOULD be the standard, I dont know why college educated teachers would argue against this.
    I've already told you why.

    1. It has created a test centered curriculum as opposed to a student centered curriculum.
    2. The test scores don't show what they purport to show.

    and no, once again, that doesn't mean that we should not measure student achievement. It just means that we should use a accurate measures.
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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I've already told you why.

    1. It has created a test centered curriculum as opposed to a student centered curriculum.
    2. The test scores don't show what they purport to show.

    and no, once again, that doesn't mean that we should not measure student achievement. It just means that we should use a accurate measures.
    The status quo is no longer acceptable. Things are changin and teachers are on the wrong side of the argument.
    No longer is mediocrity the standard. Its too important.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    The status quo is no longer acceptable. Things are changin and teachers are on the wrong side of the argument.
    No longer is mediocrity the standard. Its too important.
    Why quote me, then not say anything about my post?

    You're right, of course. mediocrity is no standard. Education is too important. The status quo is not acceptable. Yes, times are changing.

    What makes you think that the federal government has the answer to improving education, and keeping up with the times? I thought you were supposed to be a conservative.

    Local control is important. Competition is important. Holding teachers, parents, and students responsible is important. Accurate, usable data are important.

    A big test that was originally mandated in order to put money into crony's pockets is not the answer, nor is the Department of Education the answer. Big government and top down management is not the answer.
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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Why quote me, then not say anything about my post?

    You're right, of course. mediocrity is no standard. Education is too important. The status quo is not acceptable. Yes, times are changing.

    What makes you think that the federal government has the answer to improving education, and keeping up with the times? I thought you were supposed to be a conservative.

    Local control is important. Competition is important. Holding teachers, parents, and students responsible is important. Accurate, usable data are important.

    A big test that was originally mandated in order to put money into crony's pockets is not the answer, nor is the Department of Education the answer. Big government and top down management is not the answer.
    You certainly wont hear me saying that the federal govt is the answer-but the irony is the same liberals who now claim to want big govt out of life because its holding them accountable typically champion govt in our life.

    Competition is actively opposed by teachers-and their unions. Local control is only good if it ends up with unions/school agencies controlling things.
    I call BS.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Let me give you an example from medicine-A person with terminal stage 4 lung cancer might benefit from surgery to remove the mass effect (think of a bowling ball pushing on someones heart and great vessels), but have no increased survival or even length of remaining life-however the pt would be more comfortable in the mean time. Palliative care.
    We're not talking about cancer here


    Likewise a student might do better on math in school (thanks to some hip new program, lets say), but as it turns out dropout rates, highschool exit exams, and overall highschool grad rates dont improve. This is an example of improved performance NOT leading to improved outcomes.
    That made no sense whatsoever. You start out talking about one student's performance/outcome, and then switch over to talking about a school's performance/outcome. You are using the terms in a way which is inappropriate.

    What matters, in the end is improved outcomes-because improved outcomes mean a better life for that kid-as seen through income, poverty rates, family success, etc.
    Again, that is not what educators mean when they speak of improved outcomes with respect to things like NCLB and CC.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    You certainly wont hear me saying that the federal govt is the answer-but the irony is the same liberals who now claim to want big govt out of life because its holding them accountable typically champion govt in our life.

    Competition is actively opposed by teachers-and their unions. Local control is only good if it ends up with unions/school agencies controlling things.
    I call BS.
    I am not a liberal, nor a union. If you will read what I've written and quite trying to classify the world according to "liberal" and "conservative", I think my position will come clear. If not, then I haven't done a very good job of explaining it, because you still don't understand it.

    Have a nice Thanksgiving.
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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    It looks faker than a very fake thing with a degree in faux fakery.
    Blackadder, is that you?

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