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Thread: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    That probably will happen, but the fact is the answer is wrong, due to an error. Again, for learning that may be fine, but math is about getting a correct answer. Its the nature of math to on occasion make an error, does not change the fact that its an error.

    We need to stop babying our students, especially in the hard sciences. Kids in mud huts in asia can do it-so can ours.
    the purpose of the test to to evaluate the knowledge of the student
    if the student exhibited knowledge of the problem solving process, but provided an incorrect answer resulting from a minor arithmetic error, then what we have learned is the student has mastered that material regardless of the minor error
    this is not about coddling. this is about making a proper evaluation of the student's knowledge
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    math is about getting a correct answer.
    There seems to be a lot about math that you don't understand
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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I was initially asking specifically about math tests-where there is one answer.
    Yes, there is one answer. If you want to assess where the student really is, however, getting the correct answer isn't the only thing to look at. Students are assessed in order to guide instruction.

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I take it you are a teacher, I do a bit as well (private vocational school). You seem to think the testing should be fit to the students, and I dont know that I agree. We used to be able to teach kids in one room schoolhouses to a higher standard than today. I dont think the problem is the test. Its multifactorial certainly-but its not the test, though yes-no test is perfect.
    That we used to teach in a one room school to a higher standard is a myth. It is one that has been perpetuated off and on, but a myth nonetheless. We were able to get more memorization, to be sure, but not as much real learning.



    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    You mention assessing the school-I was talking about assessing the student. I think we both agree whats best for the student is what matters most.
    Absolutely, what is best for the student is what matters most.
    The test is not for the purpose of assessing the student, not the CC test we've been talking about. It is for the purpose of assessing the school, the teacher, and the principal. It does a poor job of assessment, for the reasons I've given.



    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Might I ask what you think of private schools and home schooling?
    I have had some conflicting experience with home schooling. One student who had been home schooled entered my classroom for the first time, and was quickly at the top of the class. Another was a little Yemeni girl whose parents hadn't sent her to school because she was a girl. She spoke only Arabic, and could not read, write, or do math. Her parents soon took her out to "home school" her. It all depends on the parents.

    Private schools are also a mixed bag. Some are quite good, others not so much, just like the public schools. The difference is that public schools have to accept every student who lives in the district.

    An interesting aside about parents and their opinions of public schools: They tend to think that the public school system is terrible, but their neighborhood school is great. That isn't always the case, of course, but more often than not, it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Also, Id be interested in your thoughts on this video-yes Im serious btw.
    The video is propaganda perpetuating the myth that teachers can't be fired and that the unions make sure that they can't. Teachers are fired all the time, unions or not. Yes, once a teacher has proven himself/herself for three years, firing them becomes difficult, as well it should be.

    I personally would not enter the classroom without union protection, and it has nothing to do with being fired. It has to do with the fact that all a student has to do is point a finger and say, "he touched me", and the teacher is in a fight for his career and maybe his freedom. There doesn't have to be anything at all to the accusation, but it will take a strong defense to fight, which costs a lot of money. The school district is not going to back up the teacher, so the non union teacher has to either put up everything he owns, or trust his fate to a public defender. Scary, not fair, but reality.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the purpose of the test to to evaluate the knowledge of the student
    if the student exhibited knowledge of the problem solving process, but provided an incorrect answer resulting from a minor arithmetic error, then what we have learned is the student has mastered that material regardless of the minor error
    this is not about coddling. this is about making a proper evaluation of the student's knowledge
    Not really, he hasn't mastered it-he made an error.
    He may learned much of it-but thats not the same thing.
    Id add to your first line-the purpose of the test is to evaluate the knowledge of a student OBJECTIVELY.

    Again, kids in one roomed school houses could do this a century ago-with the SAME material. Stop defending the incorrect answer, its part of the problem.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    There seems to be a lot about math that you don't understand
    How so? The technique is a means to an end. That end would be the correct answer.
    Math isnt decided by committee.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Not really, he hasn't mastered it-he made an error.
    He may learned much of it-but thats not the same thing.
    Id add to your first line-the purpose of the test is to evaluate the knowledge of a student OBJECTIVELY.

    Again, kids in one roomed school houses could do this a century ago-with the SAME material. Stop defending the incorrect answer, its part of the problem.
    '
    no one is defending the wrong answer
    what could be learned a century ago in a one room school house is immaterial
    what has been presented is that the test instrument provides a valid indication of the student's mastery of the material if the student demonstrates knowledge of the process o solve for the answer
    such is not the case when the student merely has to select from four provided options
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    How so? The technique is a means to an end. That end would be the correct answer.
    Math isnt decided by committee.
    No, the "end" of math is not a correct answer. It is also a part of understanding how the world works.
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    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Yes, there is one answer. If you want to assess where the student really is, however, getting the correct answer isn't the only thing to look at. Students are assessed in order to guide instruction.

    ONE reason students are assessed is to guide instruction-its also evaluation teacher competency and of the school meeting its obligations.

    That we used to teach in a one room school to a higher standard is a myth. It is one that has been perpetuated off and on, but a myth nonetheless. We were able to get more memorization, to be sure, but not as much real learning. Id love to see some citations of that, please--its the first Ive heard of that-and if its true I want to know about it.





    Absolutely, what is best for the student is what matters most.
    The test is not for the purpose of assessing the student, not the CC test we've been talking about. It is for the purpose of assessing the school, the teacher, and the principal. It does a poor job of assessment, for the reasons I've given.
    Dont make a mistake-im no fan of common core. I wasn't thrilled about no child left behind until I found that it raised scores. But since it did-it should be defended.




    I have had some conflicting experience with home schooling. One student who had been home schooled entered my classroom for the first time, and was quickly at the top of the class. Another was a little Yemeni girl whose parents hadn't sent her to school because she was a girl. She spoke only Arabic, and could not read, write, or do math. Her parents soon took her out to "home school" her. It all depends on the parents.
    Here in california the teachers unions are actively against home schooling, despite higher scores by 30% or so.

    Private schools are also a mixed bag. Some are quite good, others not so much, just like the public schools. The difference is that public schools have to accept every student who lives in the district.
    You dont think the parents of troubled kids wouldnt support a private school if it raised scores? Are you for vouchers?
    An interesting aside about parents and their opinions of public schools: They tend to think that the public school system is terrible, but their neighborhood school is great. That isn't always the case, of course, but more often than not, it is.
    Not surprised to hear that. Its a good thing objective standards exist for this reason amongst others.


    The video is propaganda perpetuating the myth that teachers can't be fired and that the unions make sure that they can't. Teachers are fired all the time, unions or not. Yes, once a teacher has proven himself/herself for three years, firing them becomes difficult, as well it should be.
    Sorry I live in southern california-its exceedingly difficult to fire teachers, they are often paid for years before they can be fired, how does 3 years of competency mean someone should be hard to fire?
    I personally would not enter the classroom without union protection, and it has nothing to do with being fired. It has to do with the fact that all a student has to do is point a finger and say, "he touched me", and the teacher is in a fight for his career and maybe his freedom. There doesn't have to be anything at all to the accusation, but it will take a strong defense to fight, which costs a lot of money. The school district is not going to back up the teacher, so the non union teacher has to either put up everything he owns, or trust his fate to a public defender. Scary, not fair, but reality.
    This has always been a problem, but what you are saying is the union is there for you, not the student. Im fine with that, I just hear many special interest groups say they are benevolent caretakers of the people when really its about them.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, the "end" of math is not a correct answer. It is also a part of understanding how the world works.
    In the world the correct answer is valued.

    This isnt some mystical concept, its an objective science.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    This has always been a problem, but what you are saying is the union is there for you, not the student. Im fine with that, I just hear many special interest groups say they are benevolent caretakers of the people when really its about them.
    please don't derail this thread and turn into another rant about unions
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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