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Thread: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Exactly right, and a lot of the failure to make education "gripping" is the push to get the test scores up, the teaching to the test, the test centered, one size fits all curriculum.

    And that top heavy bureaucracy you mention is due to the top down management we have in the school system today. There needs to be more choice, more local control, more accountability of students, parents, teachers, and the school system.
    Ok, I think we are on the same page, now how do we do it?
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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, I think we are on the same page, now how do we do it?


    I'ts probably easier to re post than to find a particular post in this long, long thread.

    Here's the Dittohead not! solution:

    Dissolve all district boundaries and allow parents to choose their school the same way they choose their supermarket. This would be easier in California than most states, as the schools are funded statewide and not by local property taxes.

    Next, have each school set standards for academic achievement and behavior. If the student can't meet the standards, then the parents will have to find another school with lower standards.

    Next, scale back the role of the state to two functions: Accrediting schools, and credentialing teachers. To be accredited, the school would have to hire credentialed teachers and would have to be teaching the basic subjects: Reading, math, science, and history. Anything else would have to be up to the school to decide. For this service, the state would get to keep 1% of the funds, everything else would go directly to the school.

    Schools would then be evaluated by parents in a free market system. Schools that didn't work would go out of business or else open under new management, just like the local supermarkets.

    Parents would be accountable to see to it that their kids met the standards of the school they chose, and kids would be accountable to meet the expectations of their parents and the school.

    Everyone would be accountable, and there would be far more choices than there are now. Some of the secondary schools could be purely college prep, others could be vocational, some could be on line. The top down management system would be gone.

    Oh, and close down the Department of Education.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I'ts probably easier to re post than to find a particular post in this long, long thread.

    Here's the Dittohead not! solution:

    Dissolve all district boundaries and allow parents to choose their school the same way they choose their supermarket. This would be easier in California than most states, as the schools are funded statewide and not by local property taxes.

    Next, have each school set standards for academic achievement and behavior. If the student can't meet the standards, then the parents will have to find another school with lower standards.

    Next, scale back the role of the state to two functions: Accrediting schools, and credentialing teachers. To be accredited, the school would have to hire credentialed teachers and would have to be teaching the basic subjects: Reading, math, science, and history. Anything else would have to be up to the school to decide. For this service, the state would get to keep 1% of the funds, everything else would go directly to the school.

    Schools would then be evaluated by parents in a free market system. Schools that didn't work would go out of business or else open under new management, just like the local supermarkets.

    Parents would be accountable to see to it that their kids met the standards of the school they chose, and kids would be accountable to meet the expectations of their parents and the school.

    Everyone would be accountable, and there would be far more choices than there are now. Some of the secondary schools could be purely college prep, others could be vocational, some could be on line. The top down management system would be gone.

    Oh, and close down the Department of Education.

    Thanks Ditto...That is what sounds like a lot of good things you have there...Any of it passed along to those that can effect these changes? And what are the road blocks?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yes, the kid is failing, the parent is failing, but the school is failing too. Failing to make that education gripping enough to make it something the kid wants, failing to impress how important that education is, failing to go that extra step and not give up on the kid.
    The school is also failing by giving some students courses which are not necessary to the child's future and in which they will probably become discouraged and fail.

    We all enjoy things we are good at and everyone is good at something so why not consider education from that POV?. Why, for example, are we teaching algebra to children who will never use it and are better suited to blue collar work? Of course there are other examples.

    We should know after six or eight years in school, after they have been taught the basics, where some students excel, where some fail, and then direct them to courses where they do well. That would seem to make more sense than having them fail, lose interest and then drop out.

    There has to be a new way to look at education and 'streaming' as I believe its called, might be one of them.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The school is also failing by giving some students courses which are not necessary to the child's future and in which they will probably become discouraged and fail.

    We all enjoy things we are good at and everyone is good at something so why not consider education from that POV?. Why, for example, are we teaching algebra to children who will never use it and are better suited to blue collar work? Of course there are other examples.

    We should know after six or eight years in school, after they have been taught the basics, where some students excel, where some fail, and then direct them to courses where they do well. That would seem to make more sense than having them fail, lose interest and then drop out.

    There has to be a new way to look at education and 'streaming' as I believe its called, might be one of them.
    Isn't algebra part of critical thinking? While it is true that not every student is cut out for college, it is also just as true that dumbing down curriculum to the lowest denominator is only going to continue the slide imho. Not that this is exactly what you are saying, but I think when schools started doing away with things like 'shop' or trades like 'auto body repair', yes, I am old enough to remember when these things were offered as electives, then at that point school became less interesting to young adults in High school that knew deep down that they were not going on to college. Another thing that is hurting imho, is the slow discontinuing of sports programs, music, clubs, and extra circular activities that build character for a more rounded, and better able to learn adult, prepared to work together, solve problems, and excel.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Isn't algebra part of critical thinking? While it is true that not every student is cut out for college, it is also just as true that dumbing down curriculum to the lowest denominator is only going to continue the slide imho. Not that this is exactly what you are saying, but I think when schools started doing away with things like 'shop' or trades like 'auto body repair', yes, I am old enough to remember when these things were offered as electives, then at that point school became less interesting to young adults in High school that knew deep down that they were not going on to college. Another thing that is hurting imho, is the slow discontinuing of sports programs, music, clubs, and extra circular activities that build character for a more rounded, and better able to learn adult, prepared to work together, solve problems, and excel.
    Oh yes, algebra (which was just an example) is part of critical thinking and we want to encourage that but, at the same time, it is going to be of little value to some students who, despite an early introduction. lack the interest or initiative to work on their algebra skills. In fact, if students could spend double the time on things they are good at and less time on subjects where they are certain to fail, there might be a great many more skilled people entering society than there is now.

    It seems that many teenagers struggle to see where they fit into things and allowing them to improve on areas where they already doing well may be one way to continue their education and maintain their pride until finally, if ever, get their act together.

    Im not certain about all of this but it seems to be a possible alternative to what we have now. Or maybe not. Why streaming doesn't work - Independent.ie

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I'ts probably easier to re post than to find a particular post in this long, long thread.

    Here's the Dittohead not! solution:

    Dissolve all district boundaries and allow parents to choose their school the same way they choose their supermarket. This would be easier in California than most states, as the schools are funded statewide and not by local property taxes.

    Next, have each school set standards for academic achievement and behavior. If the student can't meet the standards, then the parents will have to find another school with lower standards.

    Next, scale back the role of the state to two functions: Accrediting schools, and credentialing teachers. To be accredited, the school would have to hire credentialed teachers and would have to be teaching the basic subjects: Reading, math, science, and history. Anything else would have to be up to the school to decide. For this service, the state would get to keep 1% of the funds, everything else would go directly to the school.

    Schools would then be evaluated by parents in a free market system. Schools that didn't work would go out of business or else open under new management, just like the local supermarkets.

    Parents would be accountable to see to it that their kids met the standards of the school they chose, and kids would be accountable to meet the expectations of their parents and the school.

    Everyone would be accountable, and there would be far more choices than there are now. Some of the secondary schools could be purely college prep, others could be vocational, some could be on line. The top down management system would be gone.

    Oh, and close down the Department of Education.
    My red flags went off immediately at "scale back the role of the state" for my stakeholders. Most of the developments in curriculum, best practices, and so forth go far beyond accreditation and credentialing instructors. I also see significant value discussions surrounding what schools would do. My grouping would be pushed enormously into some of those vocational schools (should they even exist to a satisfactory degree, and provide services to them satisfactorily-which I can bet they won't due to your established priorities), while many of the standard class continues on with college prep, thus completely institutionalizing segregation once more.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Thanks Ditto...That is what sounds like a lot of good things you have there...Any of it passed along to those that can effect these changes? And what are the road blocks?
    Road blocks? Entrenched bureaucracies, tradition, fear of change, people who would lose their cushy jobs, people who don't like public education and would rather ditch it than reform it, lots of things.

    and oh, yes, check Fiddytree's post. I hadn't read it before responding to this one.
    Last edited by Dittohead not!; 11-12-13 at 05:45 PM.
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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    My red flags went off immediately at "scale back the role of the state" for my stakeholders. Most of the developments in curriculum, best practices, and so forth go far beyond accreditation and credentialing instructors. I also see significant value discussions surrounding what schools would do. My grouping would be pushed enormously into some of those vocational schools (should they even exist to a satisfactory degree, and provide services to them satisfactorily-which I can bet they won't due to your established priorities), while many of the standard class continues on with college prep, thus completely institutionalizing segregation once more.
    My group? Who is that? My group is the American people, who are used to being able to choose, should be able to choose, and don't want Big Brother making those choices for them.

    And best practices, and so forth are best left to people who actually teach kids, and not to ivory tower bureaucrats.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    My group? Who is that? My group is the American people, who are used to being able to choose, should be able to choose, and don't want Big Brother making those choices for them.

    And best practices, and so forth are best left to people who actually teach kids, and not to ivory tower bureaucrats.
    Students in special education, primarily. I'm saying that sometimes the existing structure ends up working better for the students than a decentralized and stripped down bureaucracy would. Sometimes best practices are left to the teachers, however, as you may recall, most of that work is researched and implemented by administrative staff above the individual school.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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