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Thread: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It is kind of simple in that respect IMHO....Giving more localized control allows for more say among the educators that know their students the best. As for poverty? Come on, really? If you improve graduation rates, you start to solve the poverty problem.
    The problem is you're making a large number of assumptions. By closing the federal DOE, you're assuming that the State DOE and the local districts will be able to not only pick up the slack (a difficult proposition for anyone that knows state funding), but will also be able to thus increase graduation rate. So already, you added at least two separate problems needing to be solved, and they are not easy ones to tackle. Next set of assumptions: doing all of this will dramatically attack poverty. We do not know this in the slightest, likewise, what we do know is that graduating high school students face a large amount of poverty or unemployment should they not go on to higher education. That being said, can we actually dramatically alter these fortunes? Past efforts shows us we incredibly come up short, in part, because we make too many assumptions, and on top of that, know far less than we think we do about these problems.

    Such was the problem liberals faced, and many did not own up to.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    The problem is you're making a large number of assumptions. By closing the federal DOE, you're assuming that the State DOE and the local districts will be able to not only pick up the slack (a difficult proposition for anyone that knows state funding), but will also be able to thus increase graduation rate. So already, you added at least two separate problems needing to be solved, and they are not easy ones to tackle. Next set of assumptions: doing all of this will dramatically attack poverty. We do not know this in the slightest, likewise, what we do know is that graduating high school students face a large amount of poverty or unemployment should they not go on to higher education. That being said, can we actually dramatically alter these fortunes? Past efforts shows us we incredibly come up short, in part, because we make too many assumptions, and on top of that, know far less than we think we do about these problems.

    Such was the problem liberals faced, and many did not own up to.
    Maybe, but I think we over complicate it.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Point 1: Somewhat debatable, especially the ramifications of the term itself. The liberalism you may be citing can end up being significantly different from what you think it means. Likewise, there were many that were a bit more on the side of prior assumptions of good governance and the natural society (more monarchist, more hierarchical conservative).

    Point 2: If you mean against slavery->you would mostly be false. The war itself had the undercurrents of the implications of slavery as opposed to more modern industrial capitalism, but the men themselves were not doing so. The war turned to an explicit war of abolitionism quite a bit later.

    Point 3: I would suggest a more careful reading of history, as well.
    1. What are the ramifications of Liberty and what does the term mean?
    2. Clarify what you mean for point 2. More modern industrial capitalism?? It almost sounds like you are blaming the Union for the turmoil this country is in today but I'm sure I'm reading more into this so please explain what you mean for this point.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms | Fox News

    And this is how liberalism gained a foot hold in todays politics. with them propagandizing our children over the generations. why do you think most teachers and college professor lean to the left

    "Whoever controls youth, controls the future" was the slogan, given the German National club to the Communist thieves' den.
    They've gone from your universities to your 5-year-olds classroom...

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Do you think we can seriously diminish poverty through public policy action?
    Seriously diminish poverty? Probably not

    But we probably could seriously diminish the effects of poverty on children that cause them to have so much difficulty in school (ex substance abuse, crime, impoverished exposure to language and reading, etc)
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, you said that, but when you add...

    "I just don't buy the "failing public schools" meme.

    Nor do I think for a moment that the test scores tell the whole story, or even a very accurate story..."

    I find it hard to trust that the reforms you speak of would address the problem.
    They're basically the same sort of reforms you've suggested: More choices, less central control, dump the Department of Education. I don't know if you read what I've posted, but basically, that's what I said.

    Schools definitely need improvement and updating, but to say that they're "failing" because of the dropout rate is over the top.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    They're basically the same sort of reforms you've suggested: More choices, less central control, dump the Department of Education. I don't know if you read what I've posted, but basically, that's what I said.

    Schools definitely need improvement and updating, but to say that they're "failing" because of the dropout rate is over the top.
    I find it odd that when a kid drops out, some people say the school is failing. IMO, it's the kid who is failing.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    They're basically the same sort of reforms you've suggested: More choices, less central control, dump the Department of Education. I don't know if you read what I've posted, but basically, that's what I said.
    Ok, my bad...I didn't read the entire 30 pages before I jumped in...I know you're an educator, and in the past we have found some agreement you and I, so my apologies for jumping before knowing exactly what your position is...

    Schools definitely need improvement and updating, but to say that they're "failing" because of the dropout rate is over the top.
    The dropout rate is where it is because, IMHO, we have a culture among the education community that they are overwhelmed, pressured to pass kids through, and strict adherence to curriculums that don't challenge the kids, or get them involved. It's all very mechanical. Think about it, you get interested in things you think are cool, or capture your attention through wanting to know more about them, or reward...One of the best teachers I ever had was in the 8th grade algebra...She was an older woman, that when we started the class, she was made fun of, mocked, and disrupted. It was cruel. But she had this program of her own in class, she had pencils made up with her name on them in the school colors. At first everyone thought it was stupid, and laughable, but by the end of the semester, that pencil was coveted. And the kids, (including myself) wanted one, and I learned more in that class about math, then all of my previous teachers....I went back about to my home town about 20 years ago, and looked her up. she was retired, and very old, but still remembered me, and I thanked her for her hard work and dedication. It made a difference.

    Those teachers today, are too few.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I find it odd that when a kid drops out, some people say the school is failing. IMO, it's the kid who is failing.
    Yes, the kid is failing, the parent is failing, but the school is failing too. Failing to make that education gripping enough to make it something the kid wants, failing to impress how important that education is, failing to go that extra step and not give up on the kid.

    The shift of blame where the education community places all the blame of that kid not staying in school, failing to do much of anything other than create a culture of job protection, and drone like conveyor belt educating.

    When you have school systems that have more Asst. Superintendents, than Science teachers in the 10th grade H.S. in their district...There is a problem. Draining resource so that those on the glide path to retirement can pad their pension with six digit, do nothing titles is a travesty, especially when the individual teacher is told they have to buy their own supplies.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yes, the kid is failing, the parent is failing, but the school is failing too. Failing to make that education gripping enough to make it something the kid wants, failing to impress how important that education is, failing to go that extra step and not give up on the kid.

    The shift of blame where the education community places all the blame of that kid not staying in school, failing to do much of anything other than create a culture of job protection, and drone like conveyor belt educating.

    When you have school systems that have more Asst. Superintendents, than Science teachers in the 10th grade H.S. in their district...There is a problem. Draining resource so that those on the glide path to retirement can pad their pension with six digit, do nothing titles is a travesty, especially when the individual teacher is told they have to buy their own supplies.
    Exactly right, and a lot of the failure to make education "gripping" is the push to get the test scores up, the teaching to the test, the test centered, one size fits all curriculum.

    And that top heavy bureaucracy you mention is due to the top down management we have in the school system today. There needs to be more choice, more local control, more accountability of students, parents, teachers, and the school system.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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