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Thread: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    If you want to know how well kids can write, you give them a subject and have them write about it. If you want to know how well they read, do a reading inventory. If you want to know how well they do math, give them a math problem to work on. Good teachers knew how well their kids could read, write, and do math long before anyone thought of the NCLB tests. All that is needed is to standardize the reading inventories, math sheets, and writing assessments. That doesn't have to be subjective, at least not very, and is far and away more accurate than a multiple guess test that kids don't care about.
    Fantastic, but as we all know, what the teachers say about student progress doesn't really matter. What matters is systemic discontent by American citizens, business leaders, and politicians. As a result, you're looking at systematically evaluating not only a student, a teacher, a school, a district, and a county or even Governor's units..you're evaluating entire states, regions, and the country as a whole. Try giving a "state" or "national" report card off of the varied evaluations a teacher thinks appropriate. We would be taking writing samples, surely systematizing them like the SAT/ACT/GRE, but it's still standardized, somewhat arbitrary stuff educators can and rightly do critique, right?
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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Fantastic, but as we all know, what the teachers say about student progress doesn't really matter. What matters is systemic discontent by American citizens, business leaders, and politicians. As a result, you're looking at systematically evaluating not only a student, a teacher, a school, a district, and a county or even Governor's units..you're evaluating entire states, regions, and the country as a whole. Try giving a "state" or "national" report card off of the varied evaluations a teacher thinks appropriate. We would be taking writing samples, surely systematizing them like the SAT/ACT/GRE, but it's still standardized, somewhat arbitrary stuff educators can and rightly do critique, right?
    What seems to matter is trying to fit everyone neatly into the same mold. It doesn't work. The standardized test scores are not an accurate measure of student progress.

    If the bureaucracy doesn't want to take the teachers' word for how well the class is doing, let them assess the writing samples and so on. Give every kid a subject to write on, and then let the "educators" in the state and federal offices of education score them. That would make the bureaucrats actually work, give them a little glimpse of what teachers do all the time, and perhaps distract them from coming up with more great ideas to fix everything.

    Or, we could continue to assess kids with questions like:

    Which sentence has correct grammar and punctuation?

    a. Larry and me went to Larry's house.
    b. Larry and I went to Larry's house.
    c. Larry and I went to Larrys' house.
    d. Who gives a rip? I'm not getting graded on this (bleep!) anyway!

    The correct answer, of course, is D.
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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    When I taught 3rd grade and had to administer state assessments, I would sit there watching these 9 year olds try to get through pages and pages of material in 45 minutes. Especially when it came to reading, many kids would just glance at the passage and then just half-heartedly read the questions/answers. Some of my lowest readers would just mark answers down the page because they knew they had zero chance of getting them right. It was exhausting to watch them.
    That is a problem, I agree. Inappropriately long or complicated tests for an age group speak to an issue with the program itself. Are these CC tests?
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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    If you want to know how well kids can write, you give them a subject and have them write about it. If you want to know how well they read, do a reading inventory. If you want to know how well they do math, give them a math problem to work on. Good teachers knew how well their kids could read, write, and do math long before anyone thought of the NCLB tests. All that is needed is to standardize the reading inventories, math sheets, and writing assessments. That doesn't have to be subjective, at least not very, and is far and away more accurate than a multiple guess test that kids don't care about.
    State assessments are standardized with non-subjective responses. Now, por favor, describe how educators would incorporate instruction that aligns with state assessments and facilitates learning.

    P.S. For all students.

    That's the 600 million dollar question.
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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Wouldn't a single federal standard also reduce costs? Sure the initial step would be more expensivee but afterwards every teacher is teaching the same material, but not necessarily in the same way. I would think that that would be cheaper in the long run.
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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    What seems to matter is trying to fit everyone neatly into the same mold. It doesn't work. The standardized test scores are not an accurate measure of student progress.
    It certainly doesn't work. It gives us a limited amount of understanding, but we expect much more from it than we can possibly obtain.

    I think the question we ask ourselves about education sets us up for a lack of knowledge and lack of ability to do much better. By framing it in terms of a national uplift project, we have obscured the complications, and set us up to follow any one of Peter Rossi's Metallic Laws.

    If the bureaucracy doesn't want to take the teachers' word for how well the class is doing, let them assess the writing samples and so on. Give every kid a subject to write on, and then let the "educators" in the state and federal offices of education score them. That would make the bureaucrats actually work, give them a little glimpse of what teachers do all the time, and perhaps distract them from coming up with more great ideas to fix everything.
    Bureaucrats are only part of the story. Frankly, I would indict the entire United States of America.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 11-10-13 at 06:54 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Μολὼν λαβέ View Post
    State assessments are standardized with non-subjective responses. Now, por favor, describe how educators would incorporate instruction that aligns with state assessments and facilitates learning.

    P.S. For all students.

    That's the 600 million dollar question.
    You mean standardized learning, where every student learns the same thing?

    and there is no room for individual differences or creativity?

    I really don't think that is a reasonable goal, but anyway, if you really want to come up with an objective measure that can compare kids in school A with school B, and last year's students with this years, and measure them against a pre set goal, then what you do is matrix sampling.

    Which means that each student takes a portion of the test, then the tests are combined into a score for the whole school/state/nation/ whatever. Instead of six or eight hours of testing, you have maybe a half hour. Kids will actually sit there and try to answer the questions for a half hour (most of them, anyway), but not for eight hours, no way.

    Then, if you really want to find out what they know about the goals that the government has set, computerize the questions, give immediate feedback and some sort of a reward for correct answers. Do that, and the test scores will go up dramatically.
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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    That is a problem, I agree. Inappropriately long or complicated tests for an age group speak to an issue with the program itself. Are these CC tests?
    What I'm talking about are the state standardized testing of the past. We don't exactly know how it will compare to Common Core standardized assessments. The #1 different thing is that they're all on computers.

    I noticed that you skipped over my list of facts about CCSS from the video series. The video series where you said there were no facts presented at all....just conspiracy theories.


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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    What I'm talking about are the state standardized testing of the past. We don't exactly know how it will compare to Common Core standardized assessments. The #1 different thing is that they're all on computers.
    My daughter was taking standardized state tests on computers for the last couple years. She didn't have a problem with it. I'm not sure why that would be a problem.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Or we could just mandate that every student take the SAT and/or ACT. The two companies that make the tests could modify their tests for 2nd, 5th, and 8th graders. The test creating experience is already there for those two corporations.
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