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Thread: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

  1. #121
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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    So tell me the main philosophy difference between common core and the current teaching method.
    Best I can tell, there is little if any difference in teaching methodology. Only in tracking performance, and setting curriculum guidelines.

    My school district was an early adopter of the CC, yet I don't believe that adopting it involved any changes is teaching methods, just some changes in the curriculum. However, our school system has been very innovative with experimenting with different teaching methodologies, such as experimenting with single gender classes, and teaching systems such as "math out of the box", but I don't believe those changes had anything to do with adopting CC.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    It is based on right wing ideology in the fact that businesses can have involvement in the development of the standards.
    Yes and no. There certainly is a strain of thought amongst conservatives that is sympathetic to business interests and who think the business model is superior for many things (ex. cons who think the govt should be run like a business), as well as a preference for privatization. However, the more traditional model of education is one where the purpose of an education is to create a model citizen, and not prepare them for a career.

    IOW, Fiddytree's description of education being an area where the ideological lines blur applies here.
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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    If the Common Core was a baseline that would be great, however, it is my understanding that the expectations are much higher. In my school, the standards are expected to be taught using a strict curriculum map and timeline. When teachers have brought up concerns about some students needing more practice or reinforcement, we've been told to stick with the curriculum map, which in effect "leaves some students behind". The very thing this Common Core claimed it was not suppose to do.

    I thought about it and an alternative is to go back to grouping high, middle and low students together. That way those who grasp the material quickly and are ready to move on can. Those who need extra support and reinforcement will get it. The standards should be developed for what the mean is expected to reach if school performance is going to be judged by these standards and not the exception.

    There will always be exceptions to the mean. We will always have high and low in a classroom. It is just the reality. Brains are not wired the same. The people who set up the standards failed to acknowledge this fact as far as I'm concerned. To say that all students should be proficient in x amount of time is setting some students up for failure at the gate and thus leaving them behind.
    Do you really believe that the people who setup the standards expect every single child to meet the standards and don't realize that some will exceed and others won't quite make it? Surely these people aren't that dense.

  4. #124
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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    If the Common Core was a baseline that would be great, however, it is my understanding that the expectations are much higher. In my school, the standards are expected to be taught using a strict curriculum map and timeline. When teachers have brought up concerns about some students needing more practice or reinforcement, we've been told to stick with the curriculum map, which in effect "leaves some students behind". The very thing this Common Core claimed it was not suppose to do.
    So then it's really not any difference than what we did before is it? It just sets a national guideline.


    I thought about it and an alternative is to go back to grouping high, middle and low students together. That way those who grasp the material quickly and are ready to move on can. Those who need extra support and reinforcement will get it. The standards should be developed for what the mean is expected to reach if school performance is going to be judged by these standards and not the exception.

    There will always be exceptions to the mean. We will always have high and low in a classroom. It is just the reality. Brains are not wired the same. The people who set up the standards failed to acknowledge this fact as far as I'm concerned. To say that all students should be proficient in x amount of time is setting some students up for failure at the gate and thus leaving them behind.

    So does the CC somehow prevent grouping like students together? Our local high school started implementing CC a few years ago, yet they still have a large variety of different class levels. The TP (technical school preparation) level, the CP (fake college prep) level, the Honors level (true college prep), AP (smart kids level) and duel college/high school classes (brilliant kids level), and vocational training classes are all options for every student. They even have a special class for "cookie bakers", as my son called it, because all they could do is learn to cook and cloth themselves.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Do you really believe that the people who setup the standards expect every single child to meet the standards and don't realize that some will exceed and others won't quite make it? Surely these people aren't that dense.
    I believe part of the battle was that under NCLB states must develop a single statewide accountability system that applies to all public schools and all students regardless of participation in the Title 1 program and schools that fail to make AYP for 2 consecutive years are identified for corrective action and if a school fails to make AYP for 5 years, the Lea must restructure the school and if the school fails to make AYP for a sixth year, alternative governance must be implemented. The big question then becomes what do you do with the subgroups that aren't meeting the bar (low income, learning disabled, ELL)? You simply punish the schools with large groups of these students. That is what is happening.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Yes and no. There certainly is a strain of thought amongst conservatives that is sympathetic to business interests and who think the business model is superior for many things (ex. cons who think the govt should be run like a business), as well as a preference for privatization. However, the more traditional model of education is one where the purpose of an education is to create a model citizen, and not prepare them for a career.
    Exactly and that is highly ideological based. People like Dewey were viewed as extreme leftist.

  7. #127
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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    So then it's really not any difference than what we did before is it? It just sets a national guideline.




    So does the CC somehow prevent grouping like students together? Our local high school started implementing CC a few years ago, yet they still have a large variety of different class levels. The TP (technical school preparation) level, the CP (fake college prep) level, the Honors level (true college prep), AP (smart kids level) and duel college/high school classes (brilliant kids level), and vocational training classes are all options for every student. They even have a special class for "cookie bakers", as my son called it, because all they could do is learn to cook and cloth themselves.
    Yes, pretty much. It still expects all students to meet a standard but instead of a state standard it is a national standard. High school in general has always grouped students. You have AP courses for high end students and general courses for those who need extra help. That is not at all how it is handled in the lower grades. Basically, you stick about 25 students in a class with all abilities from the highest end to the lowest end and say here you go they must all meet the standard and the standard is set quite high. It's not necessarily a bad thing to set high expectations but to punish schools for certain populations not meeting that standard is wrong.

    Edit to add: And it's equally wrong to punish those students.
    Last edited by rabbitcaebannog; 11-09-13 at 12:22 PM.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    One of John Dewey's beliefs: I believe that much of present education fails because it neglects this fundamental principle of the school as a form of community life. It conceives the school as a place where certain information is to be given, where certain lessons are to be learned, or where certain habits are to be formed. The value of these is conceived as lying largely in the remote future; the child must do these things for the sake of something else he is to do; they are mere preparation. As a result they do not become a part of the life experience of the child and so are not truly educative.

    Seriously, how can anyone equate Dewey's belief's to the new business model of today? Just curious.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Yes, pretty much. It still expects all students to meet a standard but instead of a state standard it is a national standard. High school in general has always grouped students. You have AP courses for high end students and general courses for those who need extra help. That is not at all how it is handled in the lower grades. Basically, you stick about 25 students in a class with all abilities from the highest end to the lowest end and say here you go they must all meet the standard and the standard is set quite high. It's not necessarily a bad thing to set high expectations but to punish schools for certain populations not meeting that standard is wrong.

    Edit to add: And it's equally wrong to punish those students.
    I have always felt like my school district gets financially punished, just for being what it is. I live in a suburb, with no big industry, yet my neighbors often work for big industry, just a few miles away. Since part of our school revenue comes from property taxes, and in my state, businesses pay four times the property rate that home owners do, my district has a fairly small percent of it's operating budget from prop taxes. We also get punished for being a top ranked school system - don't get all the extra money that poor performing schools do, or the extra money that districts who have a large percent of minorities do. Thus, out of 85 school districts, our funding is 84th.

    On the otherhand, another school in our district recently had it's principle fired, for not meeting state standards year after year. Was it really the principles fault that it is an inner city school with nearly 100% poor minority students who don't give a rats arse about education? It will be interesting to see if the new principle can do any better.

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    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    I have always felt like my school district gets financially punished, just for being what it is. I live in a suburb, with no big industry, yet my neighbors often work for big industry, just a few miles away. Since part of our school revenue comes from property taxes, and in my state, businesses pay four times the property rate that home owners do, my district has a fairly small percent of it's operating budget from prop taxes. We also get punished for being a top ranked school system - don't get all the extra money that poor performing schools do, or the extra money that districts who have a large percent of minorities do. Thus, out of 85 school districts, our funding is 84th.

    On the otherhand, another school in our district recently had it's principle fired, for not meeting state standards year after year. Was it really the principles fault that it is an inner city school with nearly 100% poor minority students who don't give a rats arse about education? It will be interesting to see if the new principle can do any better.
    All excellent points. As far as firing the principal, it sure will be interesting to see what happens. Basically, the philosophy behind that is that teachers only teach well if an iron fist is used. Most teachers I know rather be treated like professionals and have equal say in what is going on with students since they are in the trenches not so much administration. With that said, if the belief is teachers need to be intimidated in order to be great teachers my viewpoint means nothing.

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