Page 12 of 69 FirstFirst ... 210111213142262 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 685

Thread: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

  1. #111
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Actually, I did mention that I disagree with the assertion of it being a liberal progressive invention, and have stated that it's came about due to an amalgamation of views from both sides. As mentioned, as I read farther on after originally making my first post I began to see more of that from Josie. However, it's an issue I've noted for more often, and in a broader fashion, from liberals recently which is why my post initially focused on that...especially since you made it a point, FAR more than Josie, to imply and suggest hypocrisy on part of Conservatrives for not actively supporting it because it was a conservative idea. An issue that went beyond Josei's simple claim that it was a progressive idea, as not only were you wrongly suggesting one side owned the claim but then proceeded to attack that side for not getting on board with any and every version of it. Additionally, you're the one that tried to expand it to a more widely held "issue" of the right where as Josie kept it narrowly focused. So yes, I had a larger problem with your statements because your statements took it to a far larger degree than Josie's did.
    For one thing, the post I responded to did not make any mention of Josie's claim. You framed it as if there were two choices.

    Secondly, I've never denied that this sort of thing has received support from the left (as well as opposition)

    I also never claimed that the right wing "owned" CC, but merely noted that the concept has its' origins in conservative ideology nor do I believe I tried to "expand it as a more widely held issue of the right". However, I did note that the right has a history of promoting certain ideas and then abandoning them once implemented. I gave zero-tolerance policies as one example.

    So no, I don't think my statements took it to a far larger degree than Josies did. The main difference I see is that I didn't misstate the facts, and I referred to the conservative tendency to prefer traditional methods in general and argued that CC is in many ways consistent with traditional methods of education.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #112
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,940

    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    true, but I never claimed that such things never received any support from the left. As you have said, the educational battles have not been as clear cut (wrt party or ideological lines) as many other issues have. Here's the first post I made which raised so much controversy.
    Your post was responding to someone stating ingroups who supporrted CC. You go out of your way to focus your post SINGULARLY on conservatives supporting it. You make no claim that the left never supported it, but you make absolutely zero mention of the left giving it support. The fact you go out of your way to make a post identifying an additional group that "supported it" and never once mention the left as another such group....and then proceeded to make post after post focusing on it being a "conservative idea" without mentioning the lefts support at all...highlights your intentions clearly.

  3. #113
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Gotcha. My primary issue with Sangha can be incapsilated with this post of his...which also is the erason why his posts jumped out more than Josie's or others as he attempted to take this issue and broaden it out to a WIDE condemnation and attack against conservatives as a whole.



    The first line is an attempt to backup his earlier assertion that CC is a conservative idea (not once prior to this did he assert in any way that it was a bi-partisan idea, or that it was in any way progressive influenced).
    Again, I never denied that CC has received bi-partisan support nor did I claim that there is no aspect of CC which was influenced by progressives.. However, there is a difference between ideology and party. The fact that a proposal or policy receives support from both parties does not mean that the policies conceptual basis has no foundation in either party.

    He then moves forward with the broader conservative attack that by disliking SPECIFIC programs like RTTT or any form of "Common Core" they are being hypocritical because they are "their" ideas; an argument based singularly on the notion that a conservative at any time in the past putting forward an idea even mildly similar automatically makes any future idea that is even mildly related to it a "conservative" idea that MUST be supported by conservatives to be consistent. He then broadens it out, taking one of the very typical pot shots by mentioning the individual mandate, an oft repeated propoganda point that is typically presented in a dishonest fashion with no deference to context, supporting facts, or understanding that everyone of a particular ideology are not a hive mind like the borg.
    I don't believe I used the word hypocrisy. The truth is, I don't blame conservatives for opposing right wing programs once they've been implemented because in general, those programs suck


    It's one thing to misrepresent a particular idea as being one side or another's sole ownership. It's an entirely different thing to then utilize that misrepresentation to attack the side ain general, imply hypocrisy across their ranks, and then open it up to a broader condemnation on a multi-issue scale.
    Again, never claimed sole ownership, or ownership of any kind (just noted how the core concepts behind CC have a basis conservative thought) or mentioned the word hypocrisy.

    And since you missed it, my point wasn't about right wing hypocrisy; It was about how right wing policies in general suck so bad that even the conservatives object to them when put into practice.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  4. #114
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Your post was responding to someone stating ingroups who supporrted CC. You go out of your way to focus your post SINGULARLY on conservatives supporting it.
    So what?

    I am free to focus on what I choose to focus on. What I said was true.

    You make no claim that the left never supported it, but you make absolutely zero mention of the left giving it support.
    That is bull. There have been several times where I acknowledge that people on the left (ex Obama) have supported CC.

    Again, the fact that some individuals associated with the left support the program does not negate the fact that many of the core principles underlying the CC are soundly supported by conservative principles.


    The fact you go out of your way to make a post identifying an additional group that "supported it" and never once mention the left as another such group....and then proceeded to make post after post focusing on it being a "conservative idea" without mentioning the lefts support at all...highlights your intentions clearly.
    Here's my first post again. Please note that I do not say "CC is a conservative program or conservative idea". I was speaking about the principles which support CC.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And right wingers. At it's core (excuse the pun) Common Core is a conservative idea, promoted by conservatives. It harkens back to the educational model of the 18th century
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  5. #115
    Sage

    vesper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Midwest
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:02 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    13,850

    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Common Core is supported on the left and some on the right. That doesn't come as any surprise because there are big government lovers in both parties. I personally am against it. I see it as forcing all school systems to be under National guidelines teaching the very same thing throughout the country. In other words some bureaucrats in Washington will be determining everyone's curriculum. This is taking away the freedom/liberty of communities and parents' say in deciding what their children will be taught. I think that is a very dangerous precedent. With Common Core parents lose their voices to suggest changes to their local school’s standards or enroll their child in another public school with better standards because all public schools will be under the SAME standards. I think it is unfair to good teachers as well. They will be forced to comply with standards decided upon by federal bureaucrats. Good teachers who actually care about their students will be limited in the way to uniquely meet the needs of their students. The students are losers too under Common Core because it treats everyone the same when that is farthest from the truth. Not everyone learns the same or at the same pace. What I have gathered Common Core is the next step in the failed No Child Left Behind program that I don't know of one teacher (and I know many) who have not a damn good thing to say about No Child Left Behind. Common Core will allow bureaucrats to issue the national standardized testing that all students will be required to complete. And in doing so means the teacher ends up spending all her time preparing for these tests so the kids will be ready to answer the questions correctly rather than actually teaching and instilling in the little munchkins the ability of critical thinking. To me Common Core is just another stellar example why the Department of Education needs to be shut down and allow states to control their own. For the love of Pete, why do so many think the Federal government has to micro managel everything? Why do they insist on all these programs with a one size fits all mentality? It's insane! But then again I don't understand the mindset that thinks big government is better.
    Last edited by vesper; 11-08-13 at 07:29 PM.

  6. #116
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,129

    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Common Core is supported on the left and some on the right. That doesn't come as any surprise because there are big government lovers in both parties. I personally am against it. I see it as forcing all school systems to be under National guidelines teaching the very same thing throughout the country.
    this sets a minimum standard. there is nothing preventing more material being offered
    if a family now moves from new york to south carolina, there is a reasonable expectation that the same learning will happen after the move as before the move
    that was not the situation previously. when my niece and nephews moved to south carolina, the schools were still teaching material the kids had been exposed to at least a year earlier. hell, one of their new SC classes was nothing more than watching 'andy griffith' tv programs under the guise of a civics class. while the material to be learned might be presented in different ways by different teachers in different locations, the basic material to be learned will be the same. whatever exceeded that standard would likely be different
    fail to see what is so bad about that
    In other words some bureaucrats in Washington will be determining everyone's curriculum. This is taking away the freedom/liberty of communities and parents' say in deciding what their children will be taught. I think that is a very dangerous precedent. With Common Core parents lose their voices to suggest changes to their local school’s standards or enroll their child in another public school with better standards because all public schools will be under the SAME standards.
    again, this is the basic minimum material. nothing prevents more and/or broader material to supplement the common core curriculum
    the high school graduate in oregon will have been exposed to the same material as the graduare from florida
    again, i fail to see the problem with a common standard of material to be learned
    I think it is unfair to good teachers as well. They will be forced to comply with standards decided upon by federal bureaucrats. Good teachers who actually care about their students will be limited in the way to uniquely meet the needs of their students.
    you say that these exceptional teachers will be limited but you in no way tell us how or why that is expected to be the outcome. please share those insights with us
    The students are losers too under Common Core because it treats everyone the same when that is farthest from the truth. Not everyone learns the same or at the same pace.
    do not allow the perfect to become the enemy of the good. common core was not intended to enable all students to learn at the same pace. some will learn faster and more deeply and more broadly - grasping material beyond that required under the common core
    the slower students will all be exposed to the same material and will learn it - or not - at their own pace. common core does not impact their pace of learning
    What I have gathered Common Core is the next step in the failed No Child Left Behind program that I don't know of one teacher (and I know many) who have not a damn good thing to say about No Child Left Behind.
    that you did not like NCLB should have no bearing upon your view of common core. if there should be found a nexus between the two, please share that observation
    Common Core will allow bureaucrats to issue the national standardized testing that all students will be required to complete. And in doing so means the teacher ends up spending all her time preparing for these tests so the kids will be ready to answer the questions correctly rather than actually teaching and instilling in the little munchkins the ability of critical thinking.
    it is my understanding that critical thinking is a key component of common core. for example, previously, in geometry, the student would only be expected to provide the answer to the problem. under common core, the student will be expected to show the process used to come to an answer to the problem. to me, that is a better approach. in the second instance, even tho the student might offer the wrong answer, they might also demonstrate a fundamental knowledge less some properly executed function. that would never be demonstrated where only the answer was to be provided (and where a one in four chance of bubbling in the correct answer existed)
    To me Common Core is just another stellar example why the Department of Education needs to be shut down and allow states to control their own. For the love of Pete, why do so many think the Federal government has to micro managel everything? Why do they insist on all these programs with a one size fits all mentality? It's insane! But then again I don't understand the mindset that thinks big government is better.
    yes, why not allow one state to impose a lesser safety standard for its food product than would be imposed nationally. it's not like that food could be transported across the border to another state for consumption [/sarcasm identifier for those who need it]
    and gasoline. so what that one state wants to allows three quarts to be pumped as a gallon. why have standards
    and i believe it was a sane process to involve teachers in the development of the common core academic criteria. they are the subject experts. gathering ideas and recommendations from those with expertise across the nation enabled the common core to collect the best insights available. that - to me - seems like good governance
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  7. #117
    Sage

    vesper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Midwest
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:02 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    13,850

    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    this sets a minimum standard. there is nothing preventing more material being offered
    if a family now moves from new york to south carolina, there is a reasonable expectation that the same learning will happen after the move as before the move
    that was not the situation previously. when my niece and nephews moved to south carolina, the schools were still teaching material the kids had been exposed to at least a year earlier. hell, one of their new SC classes was nothing more than watching 'andy griffith' tv programs under the guise of a civics class. while the material to be learned might be presented in different ways by different teachers in different locations, the basic material to be learned will be the same. whatever exceeded that standard would likely be different
    fail to see what is so bad about that

    again, this is the basic minimum material. nothing prevents more and/or broader material to supplement the common core curriculum
    the high school graduate in oregon will have been exposed to the same material as the graduare from florida
    again, i fail to see the problem with a common standard of material to be learned

    you say that these exceptional teachers will be limited but you in no way tell us how or why that is expected to be the outcome. please share those insights with us

    do not allow the perfect to become the enemy of the good. common core was not intended to enable all students to learn at the same pace. some will learn faster and more deeply and more broadly - grasping material beyond that required under the common core
    the slower students will all be exposed to the same material and will learn it - or not - at their own pace. common core does not impact their pace of learning

    that you did not like NCLB should have no bearing upon your view of common core. if there should be found a nexus between the two, please share that observation

    it is my understanding that critical thinking is a key component of common core. for example, previously, in geometry, the student would only be expected to provide the answer to the problem. under common core, the student will be expected to show the process used to come to an answer to the problem. to me, that is a better approach. in the second instance, even tho the student might offer the wrong answer, they might also demonstrate a fundamental knowledge less some properly executed function. that would never be demonstrated where only the answer was to be provided (and where a one in four chance of bubbling in the correct answer existed)

    yes, why not allow one state to impose a lesser safety standard for its food product than would be imposed nationally. it's not like that food could be transported across the border to another state for consumption [/sarcasm identifier for those who need it]
    and gasoline. so what that one state wants to allows three quarts to be pumped as a gallon. why have standards
    and i believe it was a sane process to involve teachers in the development of the common core academic criteria. they are the subject experts. gathering ideas and recommendations from those with expertise across the nation enabled the common core to collect the best insights available. that - to me - seems like good governance
    Thanks for your reply, I don't agree with you. In regard to mathematics under Common Core
    The Common Core math standards fail to meet the content targets recommended by the National Mathematics Advisory Panel, the standards of leading states, and our international competitors. They exclude certain Algebra 2 and Geometry content that is currently a prerequisite at almost every four-year state college, essentially re-defining “college readiness” to mean readiness for a non-selective community college. They abandon the expectation that students take Algebra 1 in eighth grade. (This expectation is based upon what high-performing countries expect of their students, and has pushed about half of America’s students to take Algebra 1 by eighth grade). The Common Core math standards also require that geometry be taught by an experimental method that had never been used successfully anywhere in the world. The Common Core math standards do not teach least common denominators; delay until sixth grade fluency in division; eliminate conversions between fractions, decimals and percents; adopt a new definition of algebra as “functional algebra” that de-emphasizes algebraic manipulation.
    Why the Common Core is Bad for America | Washington Policy Center

    When you keep standards at state levels it encourages innovation. Each state is like a test kitchen and when one comes up with a successful tested model it gives others guidelines to follow. That gets lost when you allow a group of bureaucrats in Washington to set the standards.

    When the Federal government used the carrot on the stick method to get the states to sign onto this program by offering them billions of dollars for their schools, many states signed on just to get the funding without reading what the program entailed. The more folks are discovering about it, the more they are pushing back. The standards for Science have been greatly criticized as being substandard and from Kindergarten indoctrination into man-made Global Warming begins. It is also being reported the Planned Parenthood has requested to write the curriculum for Sex Education.

    There's also real concerns about student's privacy and personal data being shared without the knowledge or the permission of the child's parents.

    Fight The Common Core | Heartland Institute
    Last edited by vesper; 11-09-13 at 06:39 AM.

  8. #118
    Don't Give a Rat's Ass
    SMTA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    OH
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    21,810

    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms | Fox News

    And this is how liberalism gained a foot hold in todays politics. with them propagandizing our children over the generations. why do you think most teachers and college professor lean to the left

    "Whoever controls youth, controls the future" was the slogan, given the German National club to the Communist thieves' den.
    So tell me the main philosophy difference between common core and the current teaching method.
    Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher
    Baby sister, I was born game and I intend to go out that way - Rooster Cogburn

  9. #119
    Sage
    rabbitcaebannog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 08:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,918

    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    do not allow the perfect to become the enemy of the good. common core was not intended to enable all students to learn at the same pace. some will learn faster and more deeply and more broadly - grasping material beyond that required under the common core
    the slower students will all be exposed to the same material and will learn it - or not - at their own pace. common core does not impact their pace of learning
    If the Common Core was a baseline that would be great, however, it is my understanding that the expectations are much higher. In my school, the standards are expected to be taught using a strict curriculum map and timeline. When teachers have brought up concerns about some students needing more practice or reinforcement, we've been told to stick with the curriculum map, which in effect "leaves some students behind". The very thing this Common Core claimed it was not suppose to do.

    I thought about it and an alternative is to go back to grouping high, middle and low students together. That way those who grasp the material quickly and are ready to move on can. Those who need extra support and reinforcement will get it. The standards should be developed for what the mean is expected to reach if school performance is going to be judged by these standards and not the exception.

    There will always be exceptions to the mean. We will always have high and low in a classroom. It is just the reality. Brains are not wired the same. The people who set up the standards failed to acknowledge this fact as far as I'm concerned. To say that all students should be proficient in x amount of time is setting some students up for failure at the gate and thus leaving them behind.
    Last edited by rabbitcaebannog; 11-09-13 at 09:05 AM.

  10. #120
    Sage
    rabbitcaebannog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 08:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,918

    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    For one thing, the post I responded to did not make any mention of Josie's claim. You framed it as if there were two choices.

    Secondly, I've never denied that this sort of thing has received support from the left (as well as opposition)

    I also never claimed that the right wing "owned" CC, but merely noted that the concept has its' origins in conservative ideology nor do I believe I tried to "expand it as a more widely held issue of the right". However, I did note that the right has a history of promoting certain ideas and then abandoning them once implemented. I gave zero-tolerance policies as one example.

    So no, I don't think my statements took it to a far larger degree than Josies did. The main difference I see is that I didn't misstate the facts, and I referred to the conservative tendency to prefer traditional methods in general and argued that CC is in many ways consistent with traditional methods of education.

    It is based on right wing ideology in the fact that businesses can have involvement in the development of the standards.

Page 12 of 69 FirstFirst ... 210111213142262 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •