Page 11 of 69 FirstFirst ... 9101112132161 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 685

Thread: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

  1. #101
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    My wife and I pulled our son from school due to, among other things, CC. Im not an educator, however, what I noticed with the CC is that teachers are hamstrung to having to teach to a number grade. There is no opportunity for a teacher to actually teach. It turns into the teacher being a worksheet distributor. Also, the burden of proof for a child to be moved to a gifted program is ridiculous. For instance, my son was 6 years old and reading at a 6th grade level. He was also doing division at that point. So, we met with the principal and his teacher in an attempt to move him into a gifted program. Now, my ignorance of the CC will show here. Idk if it was a state policy or if it had anything to do with the CC but we were told that he had to test in the 95th percentile of 3 standardized tests in a row before being considered for any sort of gifted student program. Those tests are only given twice a school year. He met the requirement at the end of 2nd grade. After that, we went to the principal and told her we were ready to discuss the gifted program again and were told that CC had changed the standardized tests and he had to take another test and score in the 95th percentile before moving to that class. However, he would have to wait until the test is given school wide. At that point, we were fed up and pulled him from public school. Home school is definitely better than public, but that's another thread.
    There are more examples. High School Textbook Rewrites Second Amendment

  2. #102
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Ah, I see. You're looking more at shifting culture reflecting curriculum, it seems. This was one of my little excursions at one point (I may publish something on it later), particularly with the late 80s through the mid 90s. That's why you mentioned Allan Bloom, eh?
    Exactly!

    Conservatives have, as conservatives are wont to do, opposed educational reforms in favor of adhering to traditional norms when it comes to education. The traditional norm for education is reading (the classics, noted ancient philosophers, the foundational documents of american govt, etc), writing (basic composition, grammar, etc) and 'rithmetic (ie no new math, etc)

    Guess what the CC focuses on?

    At the university level of education, the traditional focus was on a limited # of subjects such as philosophy, political history, reading the classics (ie the Western Canon, which is why I mentioned the Blooms), and not on "liberal arts" or preparing people for a career. However, in looking more closely at the CC standards, I've learned that they do not promote the Western Canon, and in fact allow schools to choose for themselves which books the students read (with an exception for encouraging Shakespeare) so on that part I was wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #103
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    48,013

    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    There's where we part. Suggesting a broad notion is a singular sides idea, when it's roots are found in both sides, is dishonest and not acceptable. Then attempting to use that dishonest assertion about the broad notion as a means of suggesting that a SPECIFIC instance is ALSO that singular sides idea is simply piling on the dishonesty and is also unacceptable.

    Stating that CC as a broad notion was supported by some conservatives is reasonable. Suggesting that some of it's roots are founded on conservative ideas is reasonable. Both of those things suggest that it wasn't an idea singular to conservatives, or held amongst ALL conservatives. That's not what Sangha did in this thread though, Sangha repeatedly claimed it was a Conservative idea, giving no indication or suggestion it was anything BUT conservatives, to me is not a truthful representation.

    As I read farther into the thread after posting my post, I'd agree as well that Josie's presentation of CC...broadly...being a singularly progressive idea is also off base as well.

  4. #104
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Tell me if you can tell the difference between these two claims:

    CC is a Conservative idea!

    CC is bi-partisan.

    One of those two claims is what I was arguing against. The other claim I have no issue with.
    I note that you make no mention of the partisan claim that CC is a liberal progressive invention and that most of the conservative states have rejected it.

    I just love your brand of non-partisanship!
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  5. #105
    Angry Former GOP Voter
    Fiddytree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:42 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    25,709

    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Exactly!

    Conservatives have, as conservatives are wont to do, opposed educational reforms in favor of adhering to traditional norms when it comes to education. The traditional norm for education is reading (the classics, noted ancient philosophers, the foundational documents of american govt, etc), writing (basic composition, grammar, etc) and 'rithmetic (ie no new math, etc)

    Guess what the CC focuses on?
    Yeah, certainly. You're going to get a mashing of both concepts here, however. Bloom and others during that time, were increasingly wary of the brand of cultural pluralism that was being promoted which was vaguely named multiculturalism (the term has a lot of meanings). In that regard, Bloom, Kimball, and others lost out on the canon they wanted long before CC started significant development. Of course a canon isn't really a fixed thing, so we're essentially creating a new canon no matter whose view is more dominant.

    However, in looking more closely at the CC standards, I've learned that they do not promote the Western Canon, and in fact allow schools to choose for themselves which books the students read (with an exception for encouraging Shakespeare) so on that part I was wrong.
    Yeah they lost that battle some time ago.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  6. #106
    Angry Former GOP Voter
    Fiddytree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:42 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    25,709

    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    There's where we part. Suggesting a broad notion is a singular sides idea, when it's roots are found in both sides, is dishonest and not acceptable. Then attempting to use that dishonest assertion about the broad notion as a means of suggesting that a SPECIFIC instance is ALSO that singular sides idea is simply piling on the dishonesty and is also unacceptable.

    Stating that CC as a broad notion was supported by some conservatives is reasonable. Suggesting that some of it's roots are founded on conservative ideas is reasonable. Both of those things suggest that it wasn't an idea singular to conservatives, or held amongst ALL conservatives. That's not what Sangha did in this thread though, Sangha repeatedly claimed it was a Conservative idea, giving no indication or suggestion it was anything BUT conservatives, to me is not a truthful representation.

    As I read farther into the thread after posting my post, I'd agree as well that Josie's presentation of CC...broadly...being a singularly progressive idea is also off base as well.
    I admit that I didn't read Sangha's exchanges that in-depth. I skimmed it and nodded and then moved on. I cannot vouch for his intentions.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  7. #107
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    48,013

    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I note that you make no mention of the partisan claim that CC is a liberal progressive invention and that most of the conservative states have rejected it.

    I just love your brand of non-partisanship!
    Actually, I did mention that I disagree with the assertion of it being a liberal progressive invention, and have stated that it's came about due to an amalgamation of views from both sides. As mentioned, as I read farther on after originally making my first post I began to see more of that from Josie. However, it's an issue I've noted for more often, and in a broader fashion, from liberals recently which is why my post initially focused on that...especially since you made it a point, FAR more than Josie, to imply and suggest hypocrisy on part of Conservatrives for not actively supporting it because it was a conservative idea. An issue that went beyond Josei's simple claim that it was a progressive idea, as not only were you wrongly suggesting one side owned the claim but then proceeded to attack that side for not getting on board with any and every version of it. Additionally, you're the one that tried to expand it to a more widely held "issue" of the right where as Josie kept it narrowly focused. So yes, I had a larger problem with your statements because your statements took it to a far larger degree than Josie's did.

  8. #108
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    You're going to get a mashing of both concepts here, however. Bloom and others during that time, were increasingly wary of the brand of cultural pluralism that was being promoted which was vaguely named multiculturalism (the term has a lot of meanings). In that regard, Bloom, Kimball, and others lost out on the canon they wanted long before CC started significant development. Of course a canon isn't really a fixed thing, so we're essentially creating a new canon no matter whose view is more dominant.
    true, but I never claimed that such things never received any support from the left. As you have said, the educational battles have not been as clear cut (wrt party or ideological lines) as many other issues have. Here's the first post I made which raised so much controversy.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And right wingers. At it's core (excuse the pun) Common Core is a conservative idea, promoted by conservatives. It harkens back to the educational model of the 18th century
    I don't deny that some of the left has supported similar efforts. However, the right has too and many of the basic concepts behind CC are based on conservative values and policies

    Measuring students to judge performance

    Holding teachers accountable for student performance (as measured by the above)

    Emphasis on the basics (the three R's)

    Standards for what is taught and what students should learn at each grade level, which assumes that every child learns (or is capable of learning) the same way at the same rate

    The only thing that seems at all "progressive" is the semi-scientific notion that progress can be measured using objective measures.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #109
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    48,013

    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I admit that I didn't read Sangha's exchanges that in-depth. I skimmed it and nodded and then moved on. I cannot vouch for his intentions.
    Gotcha. My primary issue with Sangha can be incapsilated with this post of his...which also is the erason why his posts jumped out more than Josie's or others as he attempted to take this issue and broaden it out to a WIDE condemnation and attack against conservatives as a whole.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    As I've explained, the core concept behind a Common Core is adherence to a canon (ie a body of knowledge every child should have) which is a conservative idea promoted by conservatives

    As far as measuring students achievements, again that's a conservative idea as demonstrated by the current vogue in education - testing kids using standardized tests.

    RTTP builds on bush*'s education program (if I remember correctly it was called Leave No Child Behind)

    And it's no surprise that the right is rejecting their own ideas. It's not the first time. Conservatives also like to whine about zero-tolerance policies, individual mandates, state exchanges for insurance, and states rights (when it comes to health insurance - they want to eliminate the states powers to regulate insurance in order to enable insurers to sell across state lines)
    The first line is an attempt to backup his earlier assertion that CC is a conservative idea (not once prior to this did he assert in any way that it was a bi-partisan idea, or that it was in any way progressive influenced). He then moves forward with the broader conservative attack that by disliking SPECIFIC programs like RTTT or any form of "Common Core" they are being hypocritical because they are "their" ideas; an argument based singularly on the notion that a conservative at any time in the past putting forward an idea even mildly similar automatically makes any future idea that is even mildly related to it a "conservative" idea that MUST be supported by conservatives to be consistent. He then broadens it out, taking one of the very typical pot shots by mentioning the individual mandate, an oft repeated propoganda point that is typically presented in a dishonest fashion with no deference to context, supporting facts, or understanding that everyone of a particular ideology are not a hive mind like the borg.

    It's one thing to misrepresent a particular idea as being one side or another's sole ownership. It's an entirely different thing to then utilize that misrepresentation to attack the side ain general, imply hypocrisy across their ranks, and then open it up to a broader condemnation on a multi-issue scale.

    To give an analogy, it's similar to people pointing out a random racist Democrat in the south in the pre-civil rights era and using that to condemn all modern Democrats as racist and supporting of racist policies....without giving any honest respect to the changing political affiliations over the years in said areas, the shift in party policies over time, etc.

  10. #110
    Angry Former GOP Voter
    Fiddytree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:42 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    25,709

    Re: Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    He would be right in making that claim.

    In my mind, providing means tested benefits to special folks isn't a conservative policy, it's robbing from the rich to give to the poor, and is thus quite liberal. Providing everyone equally with the same exact government service/benefit is a conservative policy, it's just providing a needed government service to everyone. but thats me, I'm whacked in the head, or so I am told.
    Well, some of it also had roots in the old pedagogic debates of the 20th century, which became politically charged. Dewey and others of his flock were well aware of the political implications of their work (some taking it to higher levels as a result), but really they were reacting against the early-industrialized model of education and wanted to provide a new-industrialized model. The techniques would be different and the outcomes would were purported to be better and molded with the style of democracy they wanted. Now, that being said, Deweyites have not had anywhere near the success they had desired. So contemporary polemical education monographs seemed to just have this all-out-war on what the future of the country looked like.

    Contemporary Deweyites suggest that the existing conservative and industrial model is too susceptible to business interests and conservative ideology because it likes to standardize everything, make it efficient, and make education function like more of a business. This is somewhat ironic, given that Dewey and the whole of early 20th century progressive reform frequently stressed standardization, efficiency, and effectiveness (while also being driven by big business).

    Accountability conservatives suggested that radical Deweyites were these Constructivist hippies that gave children free reign, no rules, no expectations for output, and had no empirical evidence backing them up. Furthermore, somehow this meant that the economy was going to tank because these kids don't even know basic facts or foundations to a subject, but they know that critical thinking component.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 11-08-13 at 05:13 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

Page 11 of 69 FirstFirst ... 9101112132161 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •