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Top hospitals opt out of ObamaCare

trfjr said:
Top hospitals opt out of ObamaCare | Fox News


Lie Number Two
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That has NOTHING to do with ObamaCare and everything to do with the products being offered. The insurance marketplace is a MARKET. Providers of insuracne products have to compete for the dollars of the consumer. Insurers have historically (and will in the future) contract with hospitals to take there insurance. Hospitals, like any business, want customers. They will contract with insurance companies that produce those customers. There is nothing in particular about Obama care products that keep a hospital from that particular discrimination.

The premise of this thread is a giant fail as there is no reason for an insurance company to "opt out of Obamacare".... In the case of Ohio, no insurance companies offering products on the Obamacare websites have suitable relationships with the healthcare providers. The market is new; the products are new and not all insurance companies are participating. Just another pre-mature poster trying to declare a national election based on the first three voters.
 
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upsideguy said:
That has NOTHING to do with ObamaCare and everything to do with the products being offered. The insurance marketplace is a MARKET. Providers of insuracne products have to compete for the dollars of the consumer. Insurers have historically (and will in the future) contract with hospitals to take there insurance. Hospitals, like any business, want customers. They will contract with insurance companies that produce those customers. There is nothing in particular about Obama care products that keep a hospital from that particular discrimination.

The premise of this thread is a giant fail as there is no reason for an insurance company to "opt out of Obamacare".... In the case of Ohio, no insurance companies offering products on the Obamacare websites have suitable relationships with the healthcare providers. The market is new; the products are new and not all insurance companies are participating. Just another pre-mature poster trying to declare a national election based on the first three voters.
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You spent a lot of time talking about insurance companies and not about the OP premise that PROVIDERS are opting out or simply choosing not to attempt to panel for the ACA exchange programs. What you prove is you dont know nor do you care about anything relevant or factual when it comes to providers and Obamacare, merely defending it at all costs.
 
Zyphlin said:
Oh, I know they did. But the reality was that even with a super majority, there wasn't even a majority of Democrats that were willing to ge ton board at that time with a Public Option. Which was kind of my point...this was an attempt for a middle ground that is extremely ineffective because it bipolar in nature, with the philosophies within it conflicting with each other rather than accentuating each other. It's a transitional law that's undoubtably likely to fail in a variety of ways setting the stage for another battle for a Single Payer system or full on Market focused reform.
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We may actually luck out, and find there is gold in all this bull**** called the ACA. It could turn out as doctors and employers opt out of the ACA system, things may revert to the way they were before WW2 were health care was mostly a cash business. It seems to be catching on in my county anyhow. I have also seen in the news similar happing in other places as well. We have 2 cash only practices set up and they are VASTLY less expensive then normal practices. There used to be only one, but now there are from what I understand a couple more that will be starting up soon. It seems from what I understand talking to my doctor about his practice,(he took over from my old doctor who died, he was the only cash only practice in the county for some time.) is that he actually makes quite a bit more money and has much more time to spend with patients and for himself. The discounts they are able to secure with x-rays and prescription drugs is quite frankly amazing. 24 bucks for an x-ray, and similar discounts for lab work and other diagnostics. 68 bucks a month gets me access to a doctor anytime I wish to see them as many times as necessary. If I don't want to do monthly the price to see the doctor is 82 bucks. About the only thing my doctor doesn't cover is major surgery and cancers.
 
VanceMack said:
You spent a lot of time talking about insurance companies and not about the OP premise that PROVIDERS are opting out or simply choosing not to attempt to panel for the ACA exchange programs. What you prove is you dont know nor do you care about anything relevant or factual when it comes to providers and Obamacare, merely defending it at all costs.
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You really missed the point (and perhaps do not understand the ACA program). The ACA marketplace sells insurance products. Healthcare providers (hospitals) contract with the insurance companies, not with the healthcare consumer. Healthcare providers are not on the ACA marketplace nor was it the intention they would be.

Healthcare providers do not opt in nor opt out of Obamacare; insurance companies do.
 
upsideguy said:
You really missed the point (and perhaps do not understand the ACA program). The ACA marketplace sells insurance products. Healthcare providers (hospitals) contract with the insurance companies, not with the healthcare consumer. Healthcare providers are not on the ACA marketplace nor was it the intention they would be.

Healthcare providers do not opt in nor opt out of Obamacare; insurance companies do.
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And in order to make the policies anywhere near affordable, which that is up for debate itself, the insurance companies need to restrict who you can see.
 
lizzie said:
Why am I surprised that top hospitals can even opt out of taking patients with obamacare policies? For exactly the reason I strongly oppose obamacare. Because it is an attempt by government to gain control over our health care and our choices. Please tell me you can understand this concept.
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Allowing hospitals to choose which plans it accepts is an attempt by govt to gain control over your health care?
 
Samhain said:
And in order to make the policies anywhere near affordable, which that is up for debate itself, the insurance companies need to restrict who you can see.
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... while that may be true, at least you understand issue. Healthcare providers are NOT in the marketplace and never were intended to be, insurance companies are (granted, there are companies like Kaiser that sell health insurance AND provide, but they sell the INSURANCE on the market)....

But, the marketplace has a range of products (bronze, silver, gold)... not every product in the marketplace need be inexpensive. It's a market (as in free enterprise)... suppliers will offer the best product to compete for consumer dollars (and have a range of options so the needs of those willing to spend money will be satisfied). The consumers will look for the best product to meet their needs at the best cost. As in any market, providers will try to maximize price; consumers will seek value... the market dynamics determine what is...... this marketplace in not sufficiently mature to really understand what types of products (and how extensive provider network will be) and at what cost.

People should actually go to the marketplace to see what this about.

Here is Colorado's, which works: Connect for Health Colorado | Colorado's Health Insurance Marketplace

Its clear from the preponderance of posts on this thread that people are merely arguing from ignorance. Healthcare providers (hospitals and doctors) do not offer products in the marketplace and do not opt in or out of Obamacare.....
 
upsideguy said:
You really missed the point (and perhaps do not understand the ACA program). The ACA marketplace sells insurance products. Healthcare providers (hospitals) contract with the insurance companies, not with the healthcare consumer. Healthcare providers are not on the ACA marketplace nor was it the intention they would be.

Healthcare providers do not opt in nor opt out of Obamacare; insurance companies do.
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Healthcare providers have demonstrated that they arent planning on attempting to panel for ACA programs. Do you understand the provider/paneling process? It is a pain in the ass by itself. The worst of the processes is the Medicare/Medicaid paneling which is why, shockingly, many providers are not Medicare/Medicaid providers.

You WANT so desperately for what you say to be true.
 
jmotivator said:
So the spin this time is "Don't worry folks! You wouldn't get into those top performing hospitals anyway! Mediocre is in!"
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That used to be Michelle Obama's job as a Judas goat. To convince poor African-Americans not to go to the hospital's ER, but instead to a small clinic, for which she was paid a 6 figure salary.
 
Actually a clinic would be more appropriate if the pt has not suffered trauma, chest pain, SOB or severe pain of some sort.
joko104 said:
That used to be Michelle Obama's job as a Judas goat. To convince poor African-Americans not to go to the hospital's ER, but instead to a small clinic, for which she was paid a 6 figure salary.
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lizzie said:
That's a possibility. I mean, if you want to take control of something, what better way than to **** it up beyond any semblance of recognition, then proclaim that the whole system needs to be scrapped, and that you have a working solution?
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With my tinfoil hat on I certainly see how one can think this... but the failure on such a large scale expends way too much political capital. Now that the number of failures seems to grow every day, the credibility of all involved has eroded and may continue to erode. There just won't be enough credibility or political capital to scrap it all and start over with single payer. I can however see scrapping it and revising the private market to take it over and make it work... the key there would be what government oversight would be needed and how much reform and intrusion will the government want.
 
Ockham said:
With my tinfoil hat on I certainly see how one can think this... but the failure on such a large scale expends way too much political capital. Now that the number of failures seems to grow every day, the credibility of all involved has eroded and may continue to erode. There just won't be enough credibility or political capital to scrap it all and start over with single payer. I can however see scrapping it and revising the private market to take it over and make it work... the key there would be what government oversight would be needed and how much reform and intrusion will the government want.
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Well, I admittedly have zero faith in our leaders these days. It won't be scrapped, and it won't be market-run. That runs counter to a government being able to control the health care sector in our country. The biggest problems didn't really even start to become issues until government started mandating the choices we had back in the 70's.
 
sangha said:
U.S. Says More Doctors Accept Medicare Patients, Access 'Excellent' - Forbes
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Accepting as gospel a quote from the Health And Human Services office on providers (because...I mean...come on...after all...its not like they have a stake in a biased position or that the administration has been known to lie to make stats look better), that doesnt in any way negate the reality that many are opting out and that in 7 years there has been a 'growth' of a grand total of 35,000 providers (minimal growth) and as the article stated the reason some of those providers are now accepting Medicare (even though it is a tremendous pain in the ass to get on and stay on the medicare panels) because the current action has upped the payment allowed. Now...if at the end of the day they offer enough gold and make participation in the ACA easier, providers will turn to it. At the end of the day, it is ALL ABOUT compensation.

Does your article in ANY WAY square with the article cited in the OP stating CURRENTLY hospitals are opting out?

Edit: Oh...wait...linked in the same article you cited....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bruceja...73-medicaid-pay-raise-for-doctors-is-delayed/
 
mak2 said:
Actually a clinic would be more appropriate if the pt has not suffered trauma, chest pain, SOB or severe pain of some sort.
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And you got your medical degree from where?
 
VanceMack said:
Accepting as gospel a quote from the Health And Human Services office on providers (because...I mean...come on...after all...its not like they have a stake in a biased position or that the administration has been known to lie to make stats look better), that doesnt in any way negate the reality that many are opting out and that in 7 years there has been a 'growth' of a grand total of 35,000 providers (minimal growth) and as the article stated the reason some of those providers are now accepting Medicare (even though it is a tremendous pain in the ass to get on and stay on the medicare panels) because the current action has upped the payment allowed. Now...if at the end of the day they offer enough gold and make participation in the ACA easier, providers will turn to it. At the end of the day, it is ALL ABOUT compensation.

Does your article in ANY WAY square with the article cited in the OP stating CURRENTLY hospitals are opting out?

Edit: Oh...wait...linked in the same article you cited....

Obamacare's 73% Medicaid Pay Raise For Doctors Is Delayed - Forbes
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SO let's see. I could believe the non-partisan govt agency, or some guy on the internet....

Hmmm....
 
sangha said:
SO let's see. I could believe the non-partisan govt agency, or some guy on the internet....

Hmmm....
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No no...I said ACCEPTING their word...and then went on to show why 'more' providers were accepting Medicare. Did you miss that part? And did you also miss the part where the 73% pay raise that was promised as an offering to providers was suspended?

And again...how does your comment or posting square with the article cited in the OP which quoted actual providers that are opting out of the ACA packages?
 
Well, where did you get yours? Those reasons are why you should go to the ER, a few others, but...
ItAin'tFree said:
And you got your medical degree from where?
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mak2 said:
Well, where did you get yours? Those reasons are why you should go to the ER, a few others, but...
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I didn't get one. That's why I don't give out medical advice to anyone (other than family) or everyone.
 
Ok, so what was your point? Would it not be more appropriate for patients except for those I mentioned (and a few other rare exceptions) to go to a clinic than an ER.
ItAin'tFree said:
I didn't get one. That's why I don't give out medical advice to anyone (other than family) or everyone.
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mak2 said:
Ok, so what was your point? Would it not be more appropriate for patients except for those I mentioned (and a few other rare exceptions) to go to a clinic than an ER.
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Maybe, and it might save their life if they did go to an ER. But it should be their decision, not mine or yours. Or the results of Obama and the Dems.
 
If a person comes to the ER with the sniffles, sending them to the clinic is the appropriate triage. The problem with our current profit based system is the clinic is usually not an option if the patient does not have means to pay. It is kinda complicated, but a clinic is not required to treat people with no means to pay, and an ER is not either until the patient is too sick and must be stabilized. This situation is not the result of ACA. It just isnt.
ItAin'tFree said:
Maybe, and it might save their life if they did go to an ER. But it should be their decision, not mine or yours. Or the results of Obama and the Dems.
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mak2 said:
If a person comes to the ER with the sniffles, sending them to the clinic is the appropriate triage. The problem with our current profit based system is the clinic is usually not an option if the patient does not have means to pay. It is kinda complicated, but a clinic is not required to treat people with no means to pay, and an ER is not either until the patient is too sick and must be stabilized. This situation is not the result of ACA. It just isnt.
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If a medical professional says "go to the clinic", I agree. Or the person that is sick or hurt decides to go to the clinic, I agree with their decision. But I'm not going to tell anybody to go see a nurse or a PA because they may need a doctor with full facilities to handle a problem that could become acute, fast.
 
VanceMack said:
No no...I said ACCEPTING their word...and then went on to show why 'more' providers were accepting Medicare. Did you miss that part? And did you also miss the part where the 73% pay raise that was promised as an offering to providers was suspended?

And again...how does your comment or posting square with the article cited in the OP which quoted actual providers that are opting out of the ACA packages?
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I'm not buying your bait and switch tactics. One minute, doctors are not accepting Medicare because of paneling, and the next, they are accepting Medicare because of the increased reimbursements.

And then, it's not about doctors opting out of Medicare; it's doctors opting out of ACA
 
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