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Thread: Top hospitals opt out of ObamaCare

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    Re: Top hospitals opt out of ObamaCare

    Ok, so what was your point? Would it not be more appropriate for patients except for those I mentioned (and a few other rare exceptions) to go to a clinic than an ER.
    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
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    Re: Top hospitals opt out of ObamaCare

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    Ok, so what was your point? Would it not be more appropriate for patients except for those I mentioned (and a few other rare exceptions) to go to a clinic than an ER.
    Maybe, and it might save their life if they did go to an ER. But it should be their decision, not mine or yours. Or the results of Obama and the Dems.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: Top hospitals opt out of ObamaCare

    If a person comes to the ER with the sniffles, sending them to the clinic is the appropriate triage. The problem with our current profit based system is the clinic is usually not an option if the patient does not have means to pay. It is kinda complicated, but a clinic is not required to treat people with no means to pay, and an ER is not either until the patient is too sick and must be stabilized. This situation is not the result of ACA. It just isnt.
    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Maybe, and it might save their life if they did go to an ER. But it should be their decision, not mine or yours. Or the results of Obama and the Dems.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: Top hospitals opt out of ObamaCare

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    If a person comes to the ER with the sniffles, sending them to the clinic is the appropriate triage. The problem with our current profit based system is the clinic is usually not an option if the patient does not have means to pay. It is kinda complicated, but a clinic is not required to treat people with no means to pay, and an ER is not either until the patient is too sick and must be stabilized. This situation is not the result of ACA. It just isnt.
    If a medical professional says "go to the clinic", I agree. Or the person that is sick or hurt decides to go to the clinic, I agree with their decision. But I'm not going to tell anybody to go see a nurse or a PA because they may need a doctor with full facilities to handle a problem that could become acute, fast.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: Top hospitals opt out of ObamaCare

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    No no...I said ACCEPTING their word...and then went on to show why 'more' providers were accepting Medicare. Did you miss that part? And did you also miss the part where the 73% pay raise that was promised as an offering to providers was suspended?

    And again...how does your comment or posting square with the article cited in the OP which quoted actual providers that are opting out of the ACA packages?
    I'm not buying your bait and switch tactics. One minute, doctors are not accepting Medicare because of paneling, and the next, they are accepting Medicare because of the increased reimbursements.

    And then, it's not about doctors opting out of Medicare; it's doctors opting out of ACA
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Top hospitals opt out of ObamaCare

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I'm not buying your bait and switch tactics. One minute, doctors are not accepting Medicare because of paneling, and the next, they are accepting Medicare because of the increased reimbursements.

    And then, it's not about doctors opting out of Medicare; it's doctors opting out of ACA
    you are the one offering a bait and switch. The OP cited an article referencing hospitals opting out of the ACA and you respond with an article about 'more' providers accepting Medicare. I accepted your position that 'more' might be braving the pain in the ass that is Medicare panelling (ask CC what kind of a nightmare it can be) as the legislature has increased reimbursement.

    I also cited an article linked from the same site you referenced that shows the 'increase' promised to providers has been suspended.

    Offer enough compensation, make it profitable, and providers will go through the process. The OP isn't stating Hospitals are opting out because they hate Obama, but rather the rate of reimbursement is not profitable.

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    Re: Top hospitals opt out of ObamaCare

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    you are the one offering a bait and switch. The OP cited an article referencing hospitals opting out of the ACA and you respond with an article about 'more' providers accepting Medicare.
    I posted that link in response to the claim (was it yours?) that doctors are opting out of medicare. Please don't imply that I brought up Medicare and whether doctors were accepting it or not.


    I accepted your position that 'more' might be braving the pain in the ass that is Medicare panelling (ask CC what kind of a nightmare it can be) as the legislature has increased reimbursement.

    I also cited an article linked from the same site you referenced that shows the 'increase' promised to providers has been suspended.

    Offer enough compensation, make it profitable, and providers will go through the process. The OP isn't stating Hospitals are opting out because they hate Obama, but rather the rate of reimbursement is not profitable.
    IMO, the OP didn't have much of any point. All it offers is anecdotal evidence about a few hospitals.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Top hospitals opt out of ObamaCare

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Healthcare providers have demonstrated that they arent planning on attempting to panel for ACA programs. Do you understand the provider/paneling process? It is a pain in the ass by itself. The worst of the processes is the Medicare/Medicaid paneling which is why, shockingly, many providers are not Medicare/Medicaid providers.

    You WANT so desperately for what you say to be true.
    Of course I understand Doctor paneling..... in fact, I have a picture to prove it:

    Doctor paneling.jpg


    But you really a squirming in your retorts. You don't seem to understand how this works. The fundamental precept of Obamacare is the establishment of marketplaces to sell insurance products. Many of these products are offered by companies that have existing networks. Doctors and hospitals do not have to opt in or opt out. They are either in a network or not. If the Obamacare product subscribes to the market (and that is usually on an insurance company by insurance company basis), they are "in" Obamacare through no choice of their own. There are no specific requirements of the provider placed on them by the ACA.... The US News Article is simply saying that many of the top hospitals are not in the networks of the companies currently offering the plans on the exchange. It is move of a commentary on the insurance companies that are participating in the ACA. The article never implies that the hospital or provider opted in or opted out (because they did not). The title of the article is misleading, as no where in the text does it say that the providers opted out (it only says it in the title)

    http://health.usnews.com/health-news...t-of-obamacare

    The market is immature. You really can not speculate on where it is going to go. Not all insurance companies are participating; some are participating and offer "lite" products to keep the product cheap. The current thrust of the marketplace is to sign up those that are uninsured because they can't afford insurance or do not think they need it. Accordingly, low cost products are the first to market. Long-term, however, the marketplace will inhabited by all individuals seeking health insurance (including those that can afford premium policies) as well as most small businesses. It will be a robust marketplace with lots of products. The marketplace is not just Baltic and Mediterranean.

    It is silliness to unintelligent to gauge the entire market and and the success of the program based on a snapshot of an immature market 30-90 days into the program. The almost identical program works very well in MA.

    yes, I do want this to succeed. It is my country's best effort at establishing health care for all of its citizens. It is long overdue and generations in the making.


    Health care reform.jpg

    I am sorry you see fit to want America to fail and wanting it with such passion that you need to over analyze the events of each moment. That kind of analysis does not work in managing investments nor starting a business. Its just foolishness.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 11-05-13 at 09:44 PM.

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    Re: Top hospitals opt out of ObamaCare

    Quote Originally Posted by azgreg View Post
    How do you "Opt Out" of Obamacare?
    It kind of looks like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Top hospitals opt out of ObamaCare

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Of course I understand Doctor paneling..... in fact, I have a picture to prove it:

    Doctor paneling.jpg


    But you really a squirming in your retorts. You don't seem to understand how this works. The fundamental precept of Obamacare is the establishment of marketplaces to sell insurance products. Many of these products are offered by companies that have existing networks. Doctors and hospitals do not have to opt in or opt out. They are either in a network or not. If the Obamacare product subscribes to the market (and that is usually on an insurance company by insurance company basis), they are "in" Obamacare through no choice of their own. There are no specific requirements of the provider placed on them by the ACA.... The US News Article is simply saying that many of the top hospitals are not in the networks of the companies currently offering the plans on the exchange. It is move of a commentary on the insurance companies that are participating in the ACA. The article never implies that the hospital or provider opted in or opted out (because they did not). The title of the article is misleading, as no where in the text does it say that the providers opted out (it only says it in the title)

    http://health.usnews.com/health-news...t-of-obamacare

    The market is immature. You really can not speculate on where it is going to go. Not all insurance companies are participating; some are participating and offer "lite" products to keep the product cheap. The current thrust of the marketplace is to sign up those that are uninsured because they can't afford insurance or do not think they need it. Accordingly, low cost products are the first to market. Long-term, however, the marketplace will inhabited by all individuals seeking health insurance (including those that can afford premium policies) as well as most small businesses. It will be a robust marketplace with lots of products. The marketplace is not just Baltic and Mediterranean.

    It is silliness to unintelligent to gauge the entire market and and the success of the program based on a snapshot of an immature market 30-90 days into the program. The almost identical program works very well in MA.

    yes, I do want this to succeed. It is my country's best effort at establishing health care for all of its citizens. It is long overdue and generations in the making.


    Health care reform.jpg

    I am sorry you see fit to want America to fail and wanting it with such passion that you need to over analyze the events of each moment. That kind of analysis does not work in managing investments nor starting a business. Its just foolishness.
    TLDR...you might as well have just stuck with your last statement because in the end...EVERYTHING ELSE you say is merely an attempt to make the abomination of a piece of legislation that no one that voted for it bothered to read a "good thing".

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