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Thread: Obama's health promises backfire

  1. #51
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    Re: Obama's health promises backfire

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is historically objectively false. Liberalism as an ideology meant something very different prior to the early 20th Century. When Progressivism got a bad public flavor, they switched to calling themselves "Liberals" mostly because no one else was really using the name, and worked for them. Dewey, in particular, was a big advocate of redefining "Liberal" from its' previous arguments for minimal necessary government, free trade, and individual autonomy.
    Your OPINION noted and discarded. I can understand why you think that way since you think conservatism = all good and liberalism = all bad.

  2. #52
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    Re: Obama's health promises backfire

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    blah blah blah blah
    Not saying Obama lied about this is NOT defending Obama or his policies. I have stated flat out that no matter what he is responsible for the people he put in charge of getting the ACA rolled out.

    You have this idea that if I don't believe YOUR rhetoric of "he lied" that somehow means I am FOR Obama and FOR the ACA. That is a fallacy on your part, not mine. I also don't believe he is a super secret Muslim hell bent on destsroying America, so in your eyes that must mean I agree with him and his policies

    Grow up.

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    Re: Obama's health promises backfire

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    In the past yes, conservatism was what kept kids in the factories.
    Wow, conservatism kept kids in greasy, dirty, smokey factories, huh? That's just astounding. They probably fed them dirty food and water too, eh?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Obama's health promises backfire

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Wow, conservatism kept kids in greasy, dirty, smokey factories, huh? That's just astounding. They probably fed them dirty food and water too, eh?
    Yes and I'm sure you think conservatism does NO wrong.

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    Re: Obama's health promises backfire

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Yes and I'm sure you think conservatism does NO wrong.
    Just like you think liberalism and libertarianism are utopian ideologies.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Obama's health promises backfire

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Just like you think liberalism and libertarianism are utopian ideologies.
    No I don't think liberalism is perfect and I even stated examples of it going to far (i.e. gun control, soda size bans, etc). You on the other hand have not said one damn thing bad about conservatism that I've seen here. Both conservatism and liberalism are needed in a successful country.

    Care to show us the faults of conservatism or do you truly believe there aren't any?

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    Re: Obama's health promises backfire

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    No I don't think liberalism is perfect and I even stated examples of it going to far (i.e. gun control, soda size bans, etc). You on the other hand have not said one damn thing bad about conservatism that I've seen here. Both conservatism and liberalism are needed in a successful country.

    Care to show us the faults of conservatism or do you truly believe there aren't any?
    Sure, when you start a thread on that. I was responding to the preposterous notion that conservatives make children work in factories and maybe even feed them rat poison and dirty water for lunch. The whole stereotype you're trying to thrust on people like me is rejected.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Obama's health promises backfire

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Your OPINION noted and discarded. I can understand why you think that way since you think conservatism = all good and liberalism = all bad.
    He's actually reciting history to you. There isn't any opinion there. The Progressive movement took a HUGE public opinion hit following WWII as many of the Progressive movements glitterati were Soviet and Nazi sympathizers before the war. The ideology was much the same as the growing socialist movements in Europe at the time, but felt the US was not ready for the kind of wholesale change happening in Russia and Germany. Therefor they hatched the "Progressive" movement that was meant to move the US incrementally towards the same ultimate goals.

    But following the outcome of the Third Reich, and the growing conflict between the Soviets and the US, as well as the collapse of the Eugenics movement in the US, "progressive" became a dirty word. They co-opted the name "Liberal", and they carried many of the same ideologies with them. Abortion rights is nothing more than the Remanence of the Eugenics movement, pushed by all the same Eugenics supporters right through Roe-v-Wade.

    Maafa 21
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Obama's health promises backfire

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Sure, when you start a thread on that. I was responding to the preposterous notion that conservatives make children work in factories and maybe even feed them rat poison and dirty water for lunch. The whole stereotype you're trying to thrust on people like me is rejected.
    Sorry, but it is fact that conservatism allowed for the children to work in factories. I never stated any of the further idiocracies you listed, but sorry you don't like the fact conservatism isn't perfect.

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    Re: Obama's health promises backfire

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    He's actually reciting history to you. There isn't any opinion there. The Progressive movement took a HUGE public opinion hit following WWII as many of the Progressive movements glitterati were Soviet and Nazi sympathizers before the war. The ideology was much the same as the growing socialist movements in Europe at the time, but felt the US was not ready for the kind of wholesale change happening in Russia and Germany. Therefor they hatched the "Progressive" movement that was meant to move the US incrementally towards the same ultimate goals.

    But following the outcome of the Third Reich, and the growing conflict between the Soviets and the US, as well as the collapse of the Eugenics movement in the US, "progressive" became a dirty word. They co-opted the name "Liberal", and they carried many of the same ideologies with them. Abortion rights is nothing more than the Remanence of the Eugenics movement, pushed by all the same Eugenics supporters right through Roe-v-Wade.

    Maafa 21
    All of that would be fine and dandy if I were arguing that liberal good, conservative bad, but I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing against that conservatism is good and liberalism bad. I'm well aware that BOTH liberalism and conservatism have their ugly points in history as well as good.

    My whole argument is that liberalism AND conservatism are needed for a successful country. Next time you want to chime in, at least know what the argument is.

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