Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 60

Thread: Panetta: US may have to use military force against Iran

  1. #41
    Educating the Ignorant
    zimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:31 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    14,511
    Blog Entries
    12

    Re: Panetta: US may have to use military force against Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    There's no standards, no honesty.
    That's not quite true. The President we have in office has very low standards.
    He is full of gross inaccuracies. The man is as dishonest as the day is long. But hey! Whadaya expect from a Socialist? Honesty?
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  2. #42
    controlled chaos
    Gaugingcatenate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Formerly of the Southern USA, now permanently in the mountains of Panama
    Last Seen
    07-21-17 @ 02:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    8,159

    Re: Panetta: US may have to use military force against Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    I'm old enough to have had anti-war protests during Vietnam; since then we've turned our backs on "the good we've done", as you say it.

    I can't think of any war/intervention since and including then - with the possible exception of Yugoslavia - where we've done anything but meddle/
    interfere with other countrys rights of self rule/determination.

    My beef with Hilary is Libya - another misadventure where we took a stable state under auspice of a 'UN No Fly zone', and turned it into a targeted assasination of Qaddafi.
    Which was regime change/assassination, and created the terrorist state Libya has become post Qaddafi. The US led NATO on this.

    Both Hillary and Susan Rice pushse the "Viagra rape" crap that Libyan forces were uising rape as a weapon of war.

    Not saying there wasn't some commanders that might have done so - but unfortunately rape is all too common in African wars.


    Hillary hyped it -also the Bengazi fiasco has to rest on her hands, I mean Obama and Company are very good at deflecting any accountability
    but someone had to know about the poor security there.
    IMHO ( and i can't prove it) Hillary knowingly left Bengazi under secure to cover up Libayn weapons smuggling to Syria.

    If you need references, i'll try to find them/ tired of continuously making this point on various messageboards, but will do so. if need be,
    Well, again, I take exception to what you are, seemingly, attempting lay down as the whole of American Exceptionalism... it is more than just where we use our military/which wars we have been in.

    Despite that, and while I do not have a very high regard for this kind of stuff as I do think we, often, just need to let things flow their natural way... but going into Somalia and, after, going into Haiti, I think those were good-hearted efforts that were not aimed at just American interests... I think getting rid of the "Pineapple" in Panama probably did that country some good overall, as did booting the commies in Grenada and aiding the Contras against the Marxist Sandinistas in Nicaragua... I have been there, talked to many and, while divided on this Reagan assistance, I would say more appreciated the help at the time than didn't.

    While I cannot know the inner workings of what might really be going on, I don't think we went into Iraq twice for any other reason than to push Saddam back, keep him from invading/intimidating his neighbors and killing his own people... and we thought he had WMD programs that he had agreed to stop, not just put into suspense until we weren't looking, with the agreed to cease fire in the first Gulf War. While many thought we just went there for oil, can we see some evidence of that... what oil did we get? We kept oil in the region flowing to the world, which indeed helps us as if the oil didn't flow they would all be flocking to our sources driving the price sky high...sure...but, I think we did the right thing going in there. And, we obviously had a reason to hit Afghanistan after 9 11.

    American exceptionalism includes the fact that we produce more patents than any other country, our system has unleashed so many people to be better than they might have been elsewhere, we are still the immigrant capital of the world with people around the world hating us, but at the same time clamoring to come here and be a part...

    I would say much has gone downhill in the last decade or so, I fear for the America I grew up in, but its always a struggle...I would have feared it if I grew up in the pushing towards socialism times of FDR with all the powerful predators beginning to stand up on their hind legs, clawing at the rest of the world until we had that big war... and the Iron Curtain dropping down afterwards...always a struggle, that is what life is, I guess.

    So we are always remaking America, some try to push it in a less prudent direction, I am thinking that is what happened with Obama and this debacle of a health care plan... and the American people, good-hearted, get sucked in at the beginning and, suddenly, start seeing things much more clearly. We need to get more back to our roots, to the Feds only being responsible for what they were intended to be responsible for so that we can go back to being more free individuals, which is what this country was all about in the beginning... freedom for us.

    I agree with you on the Benghazi fiasco... could tell there was something strange going down there right from the beginning, just stank to high heaven, nothing the admin was saying was quite plausible... and we still don't know. Why we helped eliminate a guy that was complying, Gaddafi had given up his WMDs and he was not a big trouble, similar to whats his name in Egypt, why are we eliminating, pushing aside these guys who are not great guys necessarily, but wow, in that part of the world to keep order, who could be really?

    If you keep running into the same arguments, and you get to pick and choose, why not bookmark your sources or put some of them on a Word doc and then you have them ready for the next go round. No use reinventing the wheel every time. Just a suggestion.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

  3. #43
    Guru
    annata's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    beneath the bodi tree
    Last Seen
    02-16-17 @ 12:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,163

    Re: Panetta: US may have to use military force against Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Well, again, I take exception to what you are, seemingly, attempting lay down as the whole of American Exceptionalism... it is more than just where we use our military/which wars we have been in.

    Despite that, and while I do not have a very high regard for this kind of stuff as I do think we, often, just need to let things flow their natural way... but going into Somalia and, after, going into Haiti, I think those were good-hearted efforts that were not aimed at just American interests... I think getting rid of the "Pineapple" in Panama probably did that country some good overall, as did booting the commies in Grenada and aiding the Contras against the Marxist Sandinistas in Nicaragua... I have been there, talked to many and, while divided on this Reagan assistance, I would say more appreciated the help at the time than didn't.

    While I cannot know the inner workings of what might really be going on, I don't think we went into Iraq twice for any other reason than to push Saddam back, keep him from invading/intimidating his neighbors and killing his own people... and we thought he had WMD programs that he had agreed to stop, not just put into suspense until we weren't looking, with the agreed to cease fire in the first Gulf War. While many thought we just went there for oil, can we see some evidence of that... what oil did we get? We kept oil in the region flowing to the world, which indeed helps us as if the oil didn't flow they would all be flocking to our sources driving the price sky high...sure...but, I think we did the right thing going in there. And, we obviously had a reason to hit Afghanistan after 9 11.

    American exceptionalism includes the fact that we produce more patents than any other country, our system has unleashed so many people to be better than they might have been elsewhere, we are still the immigrant capital of the world with people around the world hating us, but at the same time clamoring to come here and be a part...

    I would say much has gone downhill in the last decade or so, I fear for the America I grew up in, but its always a struggle...I would have feared it if I grew up in the pushing towards socialism times of FDR with all the powerful predators beginning to stand up on their hind legs, clawing at the rest of the world until we had that big war... and the Iron Curtain dropping down afterwards...always a struggle, that is what life is, I guess.

    So we are always remaking America, some try to push it in a less prudent direction, I am thinking that is what happened with Obama and this debacle of a health care plan... and the American people, good-hearted, get sucked in at the beginning and, suddenly, start seeing things much more clearly. We need to get more back to our roots, to the Feds only being responsible for what they were intended to be responsible for so that we can go back to being more free individuals, which is what this country was all about in the beginning... freedom for us.

    I agree with you on the Benghazi fiasco... could tell there was something strange going down there right from the beginning, just stank to high heaven, nothing the admin was saying was quite plausible... and we still don't know. Why we helped eliminate a guy that was complying, Gaddafi had given up his WMDs and he was not a big trouble, similar to whats his name in Egypt, why are we eliminating, pushing aside these guys who are not great guys necessarily, but wow, in that part of the world to keep order, who could be really?

    If you keep running into the same arguments, and you get to pick and choose, why not bookmark your sources or put some of them on a Word doc and then you have them ready for the next go round. No use reinventing the wheel every time. Just a suggestion.
    don't strongly disagree with this; I do understand American exceptionalism is more then the excuse we use to project our hard power.

    It isn't a bad thing -it's a good thing; and you make some good examples of our non-military exceptionalism.
    Glad you get it on Qaddafi/Libya -few seem to do so.
    Noriega was corrupt, and since this was Panama, and really is in our sphere of influene, I have no problem with him roting in jail.

    I was thinking further back to Allende' (Chile), and our removal of Saddam - which wasn't our business.

    I'm also not too happy the way we support the Sunni Cresent - considering we have naval bases in Qatar, and a military relationship with Saudi Arabia
    it's understandable - but we wind up in useless confrontations with Iran.
    I am very happy we might be finally be dialing that back; and perhaps recognizing the Shi'a states are going to align in their own power block (Shiite crescent).
    I do strongly object to the counterinsurgency strategy we used in Iraq, and Afganistan. Iraq was just a bad idea. We fractured a stable state, and just look at it now. While Saddam was despicable, it was their country, and we had no real reason to depose him, except for the neo-con fantasy of spresding democray.

    We are still stuck on stupid with Egypt; Obama recently suspended military aid, for no real reason. I do understand we cannot legally give military aid to a junta gov't;
    but no one in Congress was forcing his hand, an he did so as the E.Muslim Brotherhood is still a real threat to stability there.

    I'm not going to go thru the history over the deposing of Morsi -suffice to say he was bad for Egypty on both economic and security grounds.

    It is their country, the best thing we can do is just keep up a normal relationship -as it is the most secular Arab state.

    In short; we think it is our busines to go around the world imposing our values -it's not.
    We could have hit the Taliban in Afg. post 9-11 without getting into this nationbuilding crap, but we didn't.

    Remember Washington's Farewell Address about "entangling foreign alliances"? we followed that paradigm for centurys until NATO.

    Not saying we can't have them, but we don't limit them to our real interests - like SEATO which led to Vietnam.
    And fiasco's like Afg.
    Last edited by annata; 11-04-13 at 08:59 AM.
    Oṃ maṇi padme hūṃ

  4. #44
    Sewer Rat
    Risky Thicket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    23,820

    Re: Panetta: US may have to use military force against Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    It seems you and your "likers" are products of the public school system. The poison they fill young minds with today. Simply amazing.
    Let me guess, you want us to know that you went to private school. And, you are under the impression that you are privy to a special understanding of the world around you. OK, was that a religious private school?

    What poison are young minds filled with today? What do you find simply amazing?

    At this point you've said nothing that relates to the OP or to my post. Are you able to flesh out your response above or do we need to guess what the hell you are trying to say?










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  5. #45
    Sage
    shrubnose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Last Seen
    11-29-17 @ 03:46 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    18,851
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Panetta: US may have to use military force against Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Are you talking of Obama's 'line in the sand' warning?



    I said what I said and I'm not going to repeat it or change it.

  6. #46
    Educating the Ignorant
    zimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:31 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    14,511
    Blog Entries
    12

    Re: Panetta: US may have to use military force against Iran

    What did I say?

    Panetta was firing a shot over Obama's bow.
    Obama is a certified idiot, professional prevaricator and a danger to humanity.


    Exclusive: Obama’s Secret Iran Détente
    by Eli Lake, Josh Rogin Nov 8, 2013 5:45 AM EST
    Long before a nuclear deal was in reach, the U.S. was quietly lifting some of the financial pressure on Iran, a Daily Beast investigation reveals. How the sanctions were softened.

    Exclusive: Obama
    It really does make one wonder if Obama is a foreign agent.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  7. #47
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: Panetta: US may have to use military force against Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    What did I say?

    Panetta was firing a shot over Obama's bow.
    Obama is a certified idiot, professional prevaricator and a danger to humanity.




    It really does make one wonder if Obama is a foreign agent.
    No President in the history of the United States has the murky past of Barrack Obama and anyone who wants to discover more is ridiculed, called racist, etc. as though discovering more about the person who will lead the country and the world's superpower is a bad thing.

    There certainly is a right to question whether he is incompetent or whether this is actually by design, but we do know for sure that this man is a habitual serial liar, preaching to the low infos who support him.

  8. #48
    Educating the Ignorant
    zimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:31 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    14,511
    Blog Entries
    12

    Re: Panetta: US may have to use military force against Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Apparently the best way to remain strong is to continue to feck with countries far away, choose their leaders for them, impose "democracy" on them, slaughter their innocents, destroy their infrastructures, exploit their national resources, send in select corporations to become local "partners", kill many of their adult males and drone the general population into submission. It's what America does to the rest of the world. Do all of this by sending the American People to do this. Do not send your own kith and ken. In Washington your job is to make everyone suffer but everyone in Washington. In Washington your job is to prosper. Walk proud, neocons, walk proud.
    You want an explanation of why I think this is public school clap trap... here is why:

    It's anti-American BS with all the cliches thrown in.
    America would generally prefer to leave countries alone. We did this with Afghanistan for example, and look what happened.

    Yes, we did support regimes, but the scourge of a mass murdering ideology called Communism was worth stopping. If you liked mass murder, then Communism was your thing.
    Most societies do not have "democracy" imposed on them, they usually fight for it (Ever here of Egypt and a guy named Morsi?). If not, it's strange to see the entire Iron Curtain countries embrace it. Most people want to be free from oppression. Can you recall the joy of Iraqi's lining up to elect representatives? Knowing they might be shot? That's the inner fire we all have to be free, and Democracies are the best conduit to achieving this goal.
    Americans have helped rebuild the countries they've vanquished. Germany, Japan, Afghanistan, Iraq... Ever hear of The Marshall Plan?
    Send in select corporations? Who will help rebuild these places, and nobody is forcing them upon these countries. Hell the second after Bush43 left, the Germans scooted over to Iraq to try and score business.
    Kill many of their adult males? Gulags? Like the Soviets? Absurdity I say, pure absurdity. Oh! On the battlefield? Terrorist types? Good... mow the ****ers down like wheat.
    Drone the population in submission? Obama is the Drone Meister. He's knocking off vermin. Good! It's one thing he does I 100% support. If we hit innocents we tend to hear about it. Rarely happens, but if it does... sorry, war is not a game of perfect.

    This is what America does you say?

    You did go to public schools and are still in school or graduated not too long ago am I correct?
    This sounds a bit like NIMBY, but not quite as polished. You sound like a student honing his anti-American craft; NIMBY would be impressed... he might give you a few pointers... like don't give guys like me so many easy targets to aim at.

    Do yourself a favor. Leave America for 3 or four years. Go to eastern Europe, northern Europe, Central Europe (the consolation is the women are stunning and very friendly), then to the Middle East. Or China. Then come back and tell me how awful America is.
    Last edited by zimmer; 11-08-13 at 06:10 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  9. #49
    Sewer Rat
    Risky Thicket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    23,820

    Re: Panetta: US may have to use military force against Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    You want an explanation of why I think this is public school clap trap... here is why:

    It's anti-American BS with all the cliches thrown in.
    America would generally prefer to leave countries alone. We did this with Afghanistan for example, and look what happened.

    Yes, we did support regimes, but the scourge of a mass murdering ideology called Communism was worth stopping. If you liked mass murder, then Communism was your thing.
    Most societies do not have "democracy" imposed on them, they usually fight for it (Ever here of Egypt and a guy named Morsi?). If not, it's strange to see the entire Iron Curtain countries embrace it. Most people want to be free from oppression. Can you recall the joy of Iraqi's lining up to elect representatives? Knowing they might be shot? That's the inner fire we all have to be free, and Democracies are the best conduit to achieving this goal.
    Americans have helped rebuild the countries they've vanquished. Germany, Japan, Afghanistan, Iraq... Ever hear of The Marshall Plan?
    Send in select corporations? Who will help rebuild these places, and nobody is forcing them upon these countries. Hell the second after Bush43 left, the Germans scooted over to Iraq to try and score business.
    Kill many of their adult males? Gulags? Like the Soviets? Absurdity I say, pure absurdity. Oh! On the battlefield? Terrorist types? Good... mow the ****ers down like wheat.
    Drone the population in submission? Obama is the Drone Meister. He's knocking off vermin. Good! It's one thing he does I 100% support. If we hit innocents we tend to hear about it. Rarely happens, but if it does... sorry, war is not a game of perfect.

    This is what America does you say?

    You did go to public schools and are still in school or graduated not too long ago am I correct?
    This sounds a bit like NIMBY, but not quite as polished. You sound like a student honing his anti-American craft; NIMBY would be impressed... he might give you a few pointers... like don't give guys like me so many easy targets to aim at.

    Do yourself a favor. Leave America for 3 or four years. Go to eastern Europe, northern Europe, Central Europe (the consolation is the women are stunning and very friendly), then to the Middle East. Or China. Then come back and tell me how awful America is.
    So you went to a church supported private school? And college? What private university did you attend?










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  10. #50
    Educating the Ignorant
    zimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:31 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    14,511
    Blog Entries
    12

    Re: Panetta: US may have to use military force against Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    So you went to a church supported private school? And college? What private university did you attend?
    Nope... went to a school that had teachers hand picked from across the nation until the 9th grade. Then attended a pretty decent public school. Went to university. Traveled much of the world.

    I don't put much value on University, and quit halfway through. If you're going to be a scientist, engineer, MD... OK... but most folks don't need a college sheep skin. It's a waste of money; luckily I didn't waste barely any money as I was on scholarship.

    And you? You still in high school?

    PS. "church supported private school" ROTFLOL... fits perfectly with your previous comments. Why would you throw "church" in there... ROTFLOL (I know why)
    Last edited by zimmer; 11-08-13 at 08:30 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •