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Thread: Inside China: Nuclear submarines capable of widespread attack on U.S.

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    Re: Inside China: Nuclear submarines capable of widespread attack on U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Here's the nuclear target map that was broadcast to Chinese citizens.



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    Image for Yu column Inside China Source: Global Times



    Here's a chilling look at a world power and government that has no respect for political correctness and has no concerns about being voted out of power. China is the dangerously toxic combination of being extreme socialist inside its borders, but full-scale capitalist to the outside world.

    You wonder how this was receivers from the Chinese viewers in their homes, and if this is a mere eventuality that is only a matter of time.

    Want to cut military spending and development? Think there's a real interest from China (and Russia) for real nuclear disarmament? And what trigger from the Middle East could perhaps set all this in motion?
    So one of your main concerns was they were not being politically correct? Are you some sort of closet liberal focused on everything being politically correct? (joke)

    As for what happens inside China. It is very capitalist in China as well, within the cities you would never be able to tell China is a supposedly a communist country. The poor elderly are outside selling water bottles, or collecting empty cans and bottles. Nearly every one wants to start their own business, you can find booths that sell the cheapest clothing, and you can find luxury goods/stores that don't exist in smaller cities in the US or Canada
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
    Happy Christmas Merry New Year Festivus for the rest of us

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    Re: Inside China: Nuclear submarines capable of widespread attack on U.S.

    I always imagine Australia being chill as **** watching these hypothetical nuclear scenario's.

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    Re: Inside China: Nuclear submarines capable of widespread attack on U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    There is a very, very good chance we could launch a first strike on China without a single Chinese response getting through to the United States. Again the risk from China is conventional, not nuclear and revolve around their periphery and our allies.
    Another aspect of a submarine-based nuclear arsenal is that it provides a second- strike capability. Even in your fantasy world where we can completely wipe out a land-based nuclear force without a single return shot being launched, you can't do that with a submarine fleet. The retaliation will happen.

    And shooting down a doomsday volley of ICBMs is pure fantasy. Modern US anti-missile capabilities are pretty good, we can hit short and intermediate range missiles with decent reliability. But when it comes to a nuclear missile, "decent reliability" isn't anywhere near good enough. And the intercontinental weapons really would better be described as suborbital weapons, they're a whole different animal. Their re-entry velocity is just so ungodly high that it makes interception unlikely even under ideal circumstances.

    Dismissing the nuclear arsenal of a nation as large as China is just... bonkers.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Inside China: Nuclear submarines capable of widespread attack on U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    That isn't true in the slightest. We have overwhelming nuclear superiority, the possibility of China being able to ride out a US first strike with the capacity to respond in kind is seriously in question. Missile defense or lack thereof is not a factor in analyzing that scenario. http://www.nukestrat.com/china/Book-173-196.pdf

    We fear Iranian and North Korean nuclear weapons because of the enormous danger of a first strike from a rogue actor and the possibility of nuclear technology being transferred to other countries.
    I'll tell the Chinese you said so.

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    Re: Inside China: Nuclear submarines capable of widespread attack on U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Another aspect of a submarine-based nuclear arsenal is that it provides a second- strike capability. Even in your fantasy world where we can completely wipe out a land-based nuclear force without a single return shot being launched, you can't do that with a submarine fleet. The retaliation will happen.

    And shooting down a doomsday volley of ICBMs is pure fantasy. Modern US anti-missile capabilities are pretty good, we can hit short and intermediate range missiles with decent reliability. But when it comes to a nuclear missile, "decent reliability" isn't anywhere near good enough. And the intercontinental weapons really would better be described as suborbital weapons, they're a whole different animal. Their re-entry velocity is just so ungodly high that it makes interception unlikely even under ideal circumstances.

    Dismissing the nuclear arsenal of a nation as large as China is just... bonkers.
    Some people have to make up their own fantasies and then live them. there's little use trying to convince those living in that other dimension. It's just unthinkable to believe that China would get a couple of dozen through from not only submarines but also land based. Making the US the big winner with a few tens of millions less people.

    Which makes it a sure thing that the US bully will only pick on small countries that don't have the nuclear deterrent to aggression.

  6. #46
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    Re: Inside China: Nuclear submarines capable of widespread attack on U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Another aspect of a submarine-based nuclear arsenal is that it provides a second- strike capability. Even in your fantasy world where we can completely wipe out a land-based nuclear force without a single return shot being launched, you can't do that with a submarine fleet. The retaliation will happen.

    And shooting down a doomsday volley of ICBMs is pure fantasy. Modern US anti-missile capabilities are pretty good, we can hit short and intermediate range missiles with decent reliability. But when it comes to a nuclear missile, "decent reliability" isn't anywhere near good enough. And the intercontinental weapons really would better be described as suborbital weapons, they're a whole different animal. Their re-entry velocity is just so ungodly high that it makes interception unlikely even under ideal circumstances.

    Dismissing the nuclear arsenal of a nation as large as China is just... bonkers.
    That isn't true at all. This is why you track submarines and monitor them. With a country that has dozens of launch platforms like Russia this is very difficult, with a country like China which has precisely three of which only one is usually patrolling at any one time is much easier. Nothing is fool proof, but the idea that we should be dazzlingly concerned with what the OP's link discusses is untrue. We maintain an overwhelming nuclear advantage. Once again no one has mentioned anti-missile capabilities, but you are incorrect in saying we cannot shoot down an ICBM this is the entire premise of the ABM program. It certainly is not advanced enough to be fully reliable or capable of activity in parallel but it is what it does. That includes terminal phase intercept capabilities, which while not the optimal intercept point is a capability we have prepared in the form of THAAD, SM-2, etc. This is why the focus has been on GMD.

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    Re: Inside China: Nuclear submarines capable of widespread attack on U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael66 View Post
    I'll tell the Chinese you said so.
    It's alright. You obviously stumbled onto a topic that you are less than familiar with.

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    Re: Inside China: Nuclear submarines capable of widespread attack on U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Well if they do attack the US with nukes, I hope that is the side of the country they do it on.
    Really disgusting comment. So you are totally OK with those people being killed? GTFO.

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    Re: Inside China: Nuclear submarines capable of widespread attack on U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Really disgusting comment. So you are totally OK with those people being killed? GTFO.
    If they do attack the US with nukes, better them than me.

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    Re: Inside China: Nuclear submarines capable of widespread attack on U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    That isn't true at all. This is why you track submarines and monitor them. With a country that has dozens of launch platforms like Russia this is very difficult, with a country like China which has precisely three of which only one is usually patrolling at any one time is much easier. Nothing is fool proof, but the idea that we should be dazzlingly concerned with what the OP's link discusses is untrue. We maintain an overwhelming nuclear advantage. Once again no one has mentioned anti-missile capabilities, but you are incorrect in saying we cannot shoot down an ICBM this is the entire premise of the ABM program. It certainly is not advanced enough to be fully reliable or capable of activity in parallel but it is what it does. That includes terminal phase intercept capabilities, which while not the optimal intercept point is a capability we have prepared in the form of THAAD, SM-2, etc. This is why the focus has been on GMD.
    Short of having all three simultaneously in firing range of our own submarines, they're going to be able to launch before you can stop them. And you also have to simultaneously take their land-based forces completely by surprise, and destroy 100% of them before they launch. A single missile firing off is a complete failure that places millions of Americans in mortal danger. ABM systems are nowhere near reliable enough to make this a reasonable thing to attempt, and that's leaving aside the whole part about it being mass murder on an unprecedented scale to do this.

    Starting a nuclear war with China is suicide. Just like starting a nuclear war with the United States. That's kindof the idea of a nuclear arsenal.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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