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Thread: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89:106]

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    Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    maybe because the topic of the veitnam war is too emotionally charged for some people to actually discuss the consequences of leaving. i think most people just wanted to get out of there.
    Most of the leftists, certainly.

    Keep in mind that the leftists thought well of Mao and every Soviet leader while castigating Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan, two outstanding American Presidents. They demonized their own country and claimed America as the bad guys of the world. Many still believe that, Hence Bill Ayers Barrack Obama, the "Apology Tours" and Michelle Obama saying that electing her husband was the first time she could be proud of her country.

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    Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Let's see, a CON dodge from answering the topic at hand and trying to deflect from the crap that didn't fly...imagine that...

    The idea of a limited federal government was put forth by the soon to be extinct Federalists. Most of the writings cited were never ratified by the States, just drug out by a few from time to time to be bleated from a soapbox.

    fact is 'limited federal government' failed on many levels from law enforcement to banking, from national defense to monopolies. What made sense for an agrarian tiny nation clinging to a seacoast makes little sense for the last surviving superpower transitioning from manufacture to service economy.

    It is amazing to me that CONs embrace progress in soooo many facets of their life but cling to government concepts of a patriarchal, agrarian, pre-industrial 18th century society...
    I suggest you revisit your reading list. The Federalist Papers (to which I assume you refer) were critical in shaping the debates that led to ratification of the Constitution. The split between Federalists and Democratic Republicans was not really visible until Jefferson defeated Adams. The most famous Federalist, Alexander Hamilton, argued strongly for robust national defense and banking. It was the anti-Federalists, the Democratic Republicans under Jefferson, who idolized the agrarian model.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

    1. Opinions

      The sin of omission in Obamacare

      The problem of Obama's selling of his health-care law.
      Kathleen Parker, The Washington Post NOV 5
    2. To sum up, the American people were duped; the administration did not misspeak, as the New York Times editorialized. The administration knowingly misled with a false promise and a deliberate omission. Worse, it did so for your own good because you might be confused by the truth. Call it what you will.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    1. Opinions

      The sin of omission in Obamacare

      The problem of Obama's selling of his health-care law.
      Kathleen Parker, The Washington Post NOV 5
    2. To sum up, the American people were duped; the administration did not misspeak, as the New York Times editorialized. The administration knowingly misled with a false promise and a deliberate omission. Worse, it did so for your own good because you might be confused by the truth. Call it what you will.
    While I appreciate the administration's concern that we might somehow be "confused by the truth," I confess that I find it more confusing to listen to the explanations being given now about something I wasn't confused about before, especially since it was perfectly clear what was being said originally. Period.

    Good evening, Jack.

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    Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    While I appreciate the administration's concern that we might somehow be "confused by the truth," I confess that I find it more confusing to listen to the explanations being given now about something I wasn't confused about before, especially since it was perfectly clear what was being said originally. Period.

    Good evening, Jack.
    Good evening, Polgara.

    Ms. Parker is one of my favorite columnists.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    at what cost?
    Whatever it took.........we lost 58,000 men in Nam for nothing and we could have won there easily if LBJ and McNamara had let us.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Let's see, a CON dodge from answering the topic at hand and trying to deflect from the crap that didn't fly...imagine that...

    The idea of a limited federal government was put forth by the soon to be extinct Federalists. Most of the writings cited were never ratified by the States, just drug out by a few from time to time to be bleated from a soapbox.

    fact is 'limited federal government' failed on many levels from law enforcement to banking, from national defense to monopolies. What made sense for an agrarian tiny nation clinging to a seacoast makes little sense for the last surviving superpower transitioning from manufacture to service economy.

    It is amazing to me that CONs embrace progress in soooo many facets of their life but cling to government concepts of a patriarchal, agrarian, pre-industrial 18th century society...
    So, you're a statist. One that needs an education tutorial on the founding and constitution I see.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    at what cost?
    Do you know how war works?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I suggest you revisit your reading list. The Federalist Papers (to which I assume you refer) were critical in shaping the debates that led to ratification of the Constitution. The split between Federalists and Democratic Republicans was not really visible until Jefferson defeated Adams. The most famous Federalist, Alexander Hamilton, argued strongly for robust national defense and banking. It was the anti-Federalists, the Democratic Republicans under Jefferson, who idolized the agrarian model.
    I suggest you look up the word- debate. The Federalist Papers was ONE part of the debate and last I checked they were never ratified by the States.

    One key bit of ideology brought to us by the Federalists was the concept of implied powers by Alexander Hamilton (not a lot of TPs should cheer that as it is what fosters that dreaded government over reach they rail against) James Madison, many neo-federalists of today love quoting his work, fought against Alexander Hamilton's Federalist drive for a strong central government. Hamilton, as Sec of the Treasury used his Treasury agents to network a political party together throughout the states. (sounds like the TP rant about the IRS of today)

    What took the Federalists down wasn't a belief in a strong national defense but on the wrong side of foreign policy, not unlike the Republicans just before WWII, but in reverse. The Alien and Sedition Act was a huge nail in the Federalist coffin, (many TPs rail against the current Patriot Act/NSA wiretaps/warrantless crap) The Hamilton wing of the Federalists had a major meltdown when their President, Adams, defused the Quasi war with France and pulled the rug out from under a major build-up of the military. (sounds like the TP/GOP split today over national policy- internal rather than external this time)

    I didn't say they 'idolized' the agrarian model, the agrarian model was the backbone of the society back in the day. There is a difference. Industrialization and our nation's climb to world power status came later.

    The much enshrined Federalist Party crashed in 1816, with a tattered residue lasting a bit longer, will be interesting to see if the TPs can last longer. (or be quoted so often for so long without any real deep understanding of what they really stood for and who they were financed by)
    Last edited by notquiteright; 11-07-13 at 11:21 AM. Reason: forgot to add

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    Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    I suggest you look up the word- debate. The Federalist Papers was ONE part of the debate and last I checked they were never ratified by the States.

    One key bit of ideology brought to us by the Federalists was the concept of implied powers by Alexander Hamilton (not a lot of TPs should cheer that as it is what fosters that dreaded government over reach they rail against) James Madison, many neo-federalists of today love quoting his work, fought against Alexander Hamilton's Federalist drive for a strong central government. Hamilton, as Sec of the Treasury used his Treasury agents to network a political party together throughout the states. (sounds like the TP rant about the IRS of today)

    What took the Federalists down wasn't a belief in a strong national defense but on the wrong side of foreign policy, not unlike the Republicans just before WWII, but in reverse. The Alien and Sedition Act was a huge nail in the Federalist coffin, (many TPs rail against the current Patriot Act/NSA wiretaps/warrantless crap) The Hamilton wing of the Federalists had a major meltdown when their President, Adams, defused the Quasi war with France and pulled the rug out from under a major build-up of the military. (sounds like the TP/GOP split today over national policy- internal rather than external this time)

    I didn't say they 'idolized' the agrarian model, the agrarian model was the backbone of the society back in the day. There is a difference. Industrialization and our nation's climb to world power status came later.

    The much enshrined Federalist Party crashed in 1816, with a tattered residue lasting a bit longer, will be interesting to see if the TPs can last longer. (or be quoted so often for so long without any real deep understanding of what they really stood for and who they were financed by)
    You seem to have made my point without any work required from me. The TPers are Jeffersonians, not Federalists. Thank you.
    Last edited by Jack Hays; 11-07-13 at 06:32 PM.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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