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Thread: CBS: Thousand of policy cancellations[W:65]

  1. #101
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    Re: CBS: Thousand of policy cancellations

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    what if the states are making choices that are bad for people, and negatively hurting our country as a whole.

    and even if they have the right to make the choice, why are they making choices that hurt people. those stats i posted were the reasons why the system needed to change.
    Again, that is the choice that is...by right and by the Constitution...being made by the State. The people of that State are the ones to decide if those choices are bad or not...not the federal government. The same goes for individuals who make their own personal choices.

    Now, you might contend that those stats show reasons why the system needs to change, but I see them as examples of the States being able to decide for themselves...instead of the federal government stepping in and taking such choices away from everyone.
    Last edited by Mycroft; 10-29-13 at 05:08 PM.
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    Re: CBS: Thousand of policy cancellations

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Again, that is the choice that is...by right and by the Constitution...that is being made by the State. The people of that State are the ones to decide if those choices are bad or not...not the federal government. The same goes for individuals who make their own personal choices.

    Now, you might contend that those stats show reasons why the system needs to change, but I see them as examples of the States being able to decide for themselves...instead of the federal government stepping in and taking such choices away from everyone.
    since the costs of the health care system affect the nation as a whole, i think health insurance is no longer a issue of the individual states but to federal government

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    Re: CBS: Thousand of policy cancellations

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    since the costs of the health care system affect the nation as a whole, i think health insurance is no longer a issue of the individual states but to federal government
    I disagree.

    Furthermore, I contend that the reason the costs of health care affects the nation as a whole is solely the result of previous federal government interference...such as the mandate for hospitals to treat regardless of the patient's ability to pay, the increasing effects of Medicare and other federal policies. They should all be reverted back to the States to decide if they want to enact them or not.
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    Re: CBS: Thousand of policy cancellations

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    What?

    So I will be paying more to my insurance company for my health care plan so that they don't have to pay as much? Is that really what you are saying?
    Well, I'm confused as to what you're saying. People will be paying more for an Obamacare policy than a straight $5,000 deductible because Obamacare will cover more than the old one. Coverage many people don't want. Obamacare policies will cover exams and wellness visits theirs didn't cover . . . as well as, importantly, paying for people with pre-existing conditions and no lifetime caps. The old policies didn't work that way.

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    Re: CBS: Thousand of policy cancellations

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Well, I'm confused as to what you're saying. People will be paying more for an Obamacare policy than a straight $5,000 deductible because Obamacare will cover more than the old one. Coverage many people don't want. Obamacare policies will cover exams and wellness visits theirs didn't cover . . . as well as, importantly, paying for people with pre-existing conditions and no lifetime caps. The old policies didn't work that way.
    I'm sorry but that's the definition of insurance. Healthy people's money goes towards sick people's claims. And when you get sick, it will work out for you also. If everyone was always healthy we wouldn't need insurance and if everyone was always sick no one would sell insurance.

    Buying insurance through the exchange is no different than signing up for a policy through your employer where they accept all employees. The insurance company creates an average price and that's what you get.

    But in your post you said you are "paying for everyone else", you made no distinction of pre-existing conditions. I thought you were trying to make the argument that I pay more on my insurance premiums and that goes towards the subsidies that people are receiving, which would be false.

    I might have misunderstood you.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: CBS: Thousand of policy cancellations

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    I'm sorry but that's the definition of insurance. Healthy people's money goes towards sick people's claims. And when you get sick, it will work out for you also. If everyone was always healthy we wouldn't need insurance and if everyone was always sick no one would sell insurance.

    Buying insurance through the exchange is no different than signing up for a policy through your employer where they accept all employees. The insurance company creates an average price and that's what you get.

    But in your post you said you are "paying for everyone else", you made no distinction of pre-existing conditions. I thought you were trying to make the argument that I pay more on my insurance premiums and that goes towards the subsidies that people are receiving, which would be false.

    I might have misunderstood you.
    Yes, either you misunderstood or I wasn't clear. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate Obamacare. I've bought health insurance (full coverage) my whole life and, until I was in a state subsidized plan, my last premium was $850 a month for a $5,200 deductible policy. It paid nothing at all until I'd paid $5,200. No wellness exams, tests, etc. I completely appreciate the pre-existing inclusion, as I have a serious uninsurable (in the past) pre-existing condition.

    You're sort of right about "that's how insurance works." It's not exactly right in the case of Obamacare, however. Historically, insurance premiums are kept lower by excluding pre-existing conditions. Obamacare, on the other hand, allows people to buy insurance after they've had a devastating diagnosis. All they have to do is wait for the enrollment period, and they're covered for future bills. Kind of like buying car insurance after you've already wrecked your car. We're going to find that model unsustainable, in my opinion.

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    Re: CBS: Thousand of policy cancellations

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    You're sort of right about "that's how insurance works." It's not exactly right in the case of Obamacare, however. Historically, insurance premiums are kept lower by excluding pre-existing conditions. Obamacare, on the other hand, allows people to buy insurance after they've had a devastating diagnosis. All they have to do is wait for the enrollment period, and they're covered for future bills. Kind of like buying car insurance after you've already wrecked your car. We're going to find that model unsustainable, in my opinion.
    Only individual insurance premiums have excluded pre-existing conditions. If you get your insurance through your employer that is not the case. At least it wasn't with my wife. Insurance companies work out a deal with the employer. You give us all your employees as customers and we won't deny any of them. Every place that my wife and I have ever worked at was like this, but I'm sure it could possibly be different at a few places.

    But that's the point. They can accept those people with pre-existing conditions because they are also picking up all those healthier people. And that is why we have the mandate in ObamaCare. The insurance companies are going to pay out a little bit more for sick people that sign up, but they are going to have alot more customers too.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: CBS: Thousand of policy cancellations

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Only individual insurance premiums have excluded pre-existing conditions. If you get your insurance through your employer that is not the case. At least it wasn't with my wife. Insurance companies work out a deal with the employer. You give us all your employees as customers and we won't deny any of them. Every place that my wife and I have ever worked at was like this, but I'm sure it could possibly be different at a few places.

    But that's the point. They can accept those people with pre-existing conditions because they are also picking up all those healthier people. And that is why we have the mandate in ObamaCare. The insurance companies are going to pay out a little bit more for sick people that sign up, but they are going to have alot more customers too.
    You're absolutely right. Group policies pick up everyone. Mine has always been individual since I'm an entrepreneur. Without the mandate, Obamacare would collapse in short order. That is also the reason I believe penalties will ratchet up rapidly. Until they're meaningful, we're going to have tens of millions of people willing to pay the fine.

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    Re: CBS: Thousand of policy cancellations

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    You're absolutely right. Group policies pick up everyone. Mine has always been individual since I'm an entrepreneur. Without the mandate, Obamacare would collapse in short order. That is also the reason I believe penalties will ratchet up rapidly. Until they're meaningful, we're going to have tens of millions of people willing to pay the fine.
    The question is...will the Democrats be able to increase the pain soon enough to get the people to give up their desire to make their own choices? Or will the people demand Obamacare gets dumped before that happens?
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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